Women's Issues

Sounds like the dumbest example of internet slacktivism I have ever read about

@Gabrael: On a more serious note..

Women's Innermost Thoughts About Food

To me, the most troubling caption is the first one: "I often feel guilty after I eat, even if it's something good for me."

edited 30th Oct '14 10:45:20 AM by Aprilla

Women suffering from Depression have increased communication issues.

Women diagnosed with Cancer are more likely to be left by their partner.

Secondary source on men being more likely to leave.

Women are more likely to experience psychological symptoms during obesity, especially depression.

This should help explain myself better.

EDIT: Thanks for that article Aprilla. God knows I can relate to that personally.

edited 30th Oct '14 10:51:09 AM by Gabrael

Oh yes I have heard that before. Ths pseudo obsession with food on a hate-love level the likes of which leave dichotomies of good and evil blushing in shame.

Plus, you cannot give them chocolate because then they feel awful about receiving chocolate!

The funny thing is, as far as I know, most guys like it when a girl can actually eat when they go out. Might be regional, though.

Me too. I only ever heard men complain about women not getting a whole meal (and then eating from their boyfriend's meal) and generally making a fuss about eating.

Yeah, it's seen as good to eat, but it's seen as horrible to be fat. Like one of the worst things a woman can be. So it's a lose-lose situation really.

This is true. We've rapidly evolved with the rise of civilization, but we still haven't caught up with the recent rapid advances yet.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/fatphobia-guide-for-disbeliever/

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/perspectives-effects-war-on-obesity/

On the subject of obesity and psychological issues, wouldn't part of that simply be the bullying that fat people, especially women, have to endure a lot of the time? Yes, there would also be a correlation between unhealthy eating habits (too much, too little, etc.) and depression, but I just wanted to point out yet another factor that might contribute to what Gabrael mentioned.

edited 30th Oct '14 8:27:19 PM by Rainbow

Well, women restricting their diet is probably a factor in their longer lifespans.

That "I often feel guilty after I eat, even if it's something good for me" is captioned over a picture of sweets. (Sugar is not good.) So I do not think the "good" is health-good. All the pictures are of junk food, save for the one which looks like sweet and sour pork, and even that's to be eaten very moderately.

Let's just say that even though women tend to be underweight in comparison to the health bureaus' weight guidelines for women, I've read/heard that people can do better (health-wise) with just 50% of the diet plan of the average American citizen.

Basically, while people in poor countries are dying of starvation, people in rich countries are dying of overeating. There's so many health pluses to having a restricted diet that these days I think women and men (unless they're bulimic) who carefully watch what they eat are on the right track.

Yeah, it's tough, but better to fantasize over food than ending up diabetic or with hardened arteries or both. Or better yet, see food as being overrated and that the overproduction of which is one of the biggest reasons why our environment is going down the toilet.

Not a bad point, but I believe the caption still stands. Many women are notorious for having an unrealistic definition of "healthy", and this can sometimes translate to diets almost entirely consisting of cottage cheese and water. I haven't done any group training in a while, but I remember that the women with whom I worked were the worst about excessively cutting carbohydrates (hint: they're called carbohydrates for a reason) and calories.

One woman I met went on a diet of lemon water and iceberg lettuce. Not only did she crash from the diet pretty hard, but she experienced fainting spells and malnutrition despite feeling bad for what she perceived to be excessive eating. Quite frankly, she didn't need to lose that much weight. She's improved significantly since then, but she went through a rough learning process.

This process included eschewing several misconceptions women have about fitness and dieting: doing almost nothing but cardio, ignoring weight training for fear of getting too big (this is still a HUGE notion many women have), prohibitively cutting carbs, fat and calories instead of reducing intake to manageable levels, wasting money on exotic supplements instead of going with basic supplements that work just as well; preparing cheaper, healthier meals instead of buying overpriced weight loss meals.

Something I mentioned a long time ago in the Men's Issues thread was that the reverse is often true for males. Excessive eating of junk is both condoned and encouraged in social gatherings and in our media. Things have toned down over the years, but you can still see food commercials espousing the idea that real men stuff themselves to oblivion. One commercial in particular was a Quiznos ad where a bunch of heavy-set construction workers were griping about Subway's sandwiches lacking in thick meat and cheese. Likewise, a lot of those "feminine" health meals you can find in the frozen food aisle are often overly expensive, lacking in nutritional value or just generally not worth the trouble.

edited 21st Nov '14 10:30:45 PM by Aprilla

Why cottage cheese? Why not vegetables? Vegetables is very low calorie. And iceberg lettuce is one of the least nutritional lettuces. You gotta go with the dark green veggies. The ones that taste the most bitter.

These women are not thinking about "health", they're obsessed with society's concept of feminine beauty.

edited 30th Oct '14 8:48:56 PM by probablyinsane

Which is passed off as being healthy

Ugh. At least it's an unhealthy obsession with a lower carbon footprint. (Hopefully a lower carbon footprint.)

You're preaching to the choir. I could rant for hours about this, really.

edited 30th Oct '14 8:57:25 PM by Aprilla

A bog part of it is because these are the things that very serious people are telling us are healthy and what we need to eat to be the idea woman. Women go to actual professional dieticians and get sold snake oil. There is no food I haven't been told is healthy one day and unhealthy another.

And because of the industry built up around dieting sieving through the truth from the crap is hard when looking at studies.

I'd rec those meal replacement drinks. The worst-tasting ones are the healthiest. Been eyeing Garden of Life at Amazon. May have a US relative ship over a tub.

There's also a company called "Soylent" something that looks promising.

But anyway, I have more than enough trouble controlling my own "food cravings" that I best not be an online Healthy Food warrior about the subject matter.

When it comes to food, I find the best way involves just not thinking about food at all.

That might because you were talking to a nutritionist, not a dietician. Dieticians are certified professionals. Nutritionists tend to be self-titled and often less reliable sources of information.

EDIT: Nevermind that last bit. You caught it. I think?

There is a consistent basis for healthy eating and healthy training. The problem is that the hard reality of training and dieting is not sexy and exciting. It's really just what we've been told in PE or a high school health class. Really basic stuff. The problem is that opportunistic individuals and organizations (ahem, Dr. Oz, Food Babe, Atkins, paleo) take basic facts about fitness and nutrition, and they manipulate scientifically proven regimes to hide half-truths and total lies behind fancy buzz words, bright colors, expensive DVD sets and homeopathic drivel.

There's a reason why those weight-loss infomercials appear late at night on TV. Clinically depressed people often suffer from sleep deprivation, and late-night sessions of junk-food consumption combined with inadequate sleep lead to an emotionally vulnerable state that inhibits critical thinking.

I believe part of the problem is the "ideal" woman changes depending on who is on the red carpet at any given moment whereas standards of fitness and nutrition are actually quite consistent as far as human biology is concerned. This is also the reason why any woman should be suspicious of fad diets that say to completely cut out a major food group or to buy some secret remedy that doctors have been keeping locked away for some reason.

EDIT: Shameless plug time. We have a Troper Fitness Thread in Yack Fest that would be perfect for this discussion.

Also...

There's going to be a cost-benefit ratio with anything humans consume. That's just chemistry for you. For example, I take different types of whey protein, but if I take too much, I run the risk of developing liver hyperactivity. One study says that anti-oxidants are good for you. Another says they're bad for you. Cholesterol is often viewed as an evil substance that should be avoided at all cost, but it is an important part of cellular production and tissue development. You have to have it.

The magic answer is that, like most other things, they are to be consumed in moderation. Folk tales and rumors circulated through gyms, offices and grocery stores should be taken with a grain of salt. Not to sound mean to anyone, but if a woman (and plenty of men, to be sure) is engaging in an unhealthy approach to fitness, you can bet that a friend or co-worker is a culprit.

I concur, but society at large is not prepared for that level of psychological reversion. Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, but it's easier said than done. Food is fuel for the body first and foremost, yet we've socially and culturally conditioned ourselves to believe that everything we eat needs to be an amusement park. I'm very much in the "tough it out, get off your butt" camp in terms of health debates, but it's going to take a lot of social and moral effort to get women to where they can be enjoy food and replenish themselves without it feeling like such an ordeal.

I also believe that thin shaming and fat shaming derive from a lot of the same cultural forces - aesthetics, insecurity and arbitrary standards masquerading as absolute standards. Both types of shaming also seem to stem from basic misunderstandings of why we eat. Food has evolved into a public spectacle - a background piece for interpersonal exchanges. Today, food is to be shared, talked around, talked about and generally made into an event rather a basic bodily function, and that has both good and bad social and psychological by-products.

I recall an IFBB Bikini Pro champion (who was formerly obese and at risk for heart disease) saying that she usually eats alone specifically for the aforementioned reason. There was also that little factoid showing that when women eat out, the one who orders the healthiest meal will cause a sort of chain reaction where everyone else follows suit, for better or worse. Anorexics, obese women and other types of women with body image issues tend to keep the same company, I suspect.

edited 1st Nov '14 10:19:59 AM by Aprilla

In general, women are expected to be not just beautiful, but effortlessly beautiful. Makeup is supposed to look "natural," like you're not wearing any at all. Beauty Equals Goodness, but the quintessential trait of the female villain is vanity. You must be coiffed and fashionable, but getting your hair done and shopping for clothes are "frivolous."

I don't think this is a modern phenomenon at all; in fact, I think the running theory is that human society developed on the basis of sharing food and eating socially. The great apes don't share food except as a special interpersonal favor—every chimp or gorilla does their own foraging and eats what they find, on the spot. But one of the few truly universal human traits is that we eat together, and those members of the group who have food share it with those who don't. Potluck is the defining human activity!

Mmm...I wasn't implying that it was a recent occurrence, but rather than a very basic ritual in human relationships has become more pronounced with things like social networking technology (cell phones, Facebook), cars and the prevalence of fast food. Sorry. I should have clarified. Social eating is as old as human themselves, certainly, but the modern convenience of calling or texting your friends, getting in a car and driving to the nearest Wendy's or Applebee's for lunch has punctuated some of the best and worst effects of peer pressure.

I also believe that part of this trend comes from the notion that women are more social than men, which really has little truth to it based on what we've actually studied about male-male and female-female interactivity sessions. The assumption that women socialize more often and more thoroughly than men is internalized by women themselves, so you end up with these girls' nights out and afternoon "girl" time that are perceived to be special events when they're really not all that special if you compare them to similar activities performed by men. In any case, the artificial need to eat with your girlfriends potentially brings with it the need to reinforce your body image and eating habits, and I presume this is carried out with mixed results.

edited 30th Oct '14 11:02:09 PM by Aprilla

Good on you for mentioning that. In my experience (gained from living with women who valued their appearance) looking like a million bucks generally requires a million bucks, or a similar "sweat equity" investment; smooth skin, shiny hair and eyes that pop don't just happen. In general they're the result of hard work and study, not intrinsic attributes.

@Guys asking the "is she born with it" question; nine times out of ten, it's Maybelline. Just accept it, and likewise accept that she won't look like that when she's just woken up. :D

Which leads me to a question I've been curious about for a while; is there a way to tell a woman you appreciate the effort she's gone through to look her best without coming across like a creepy fucker? Some guys are cognizant of the effort a well-turned-out lady is going through to look the way she does and we'd like to let her know that we appreciate it, but we'd rather not risk making her uncomfortable along the way.

I've had some luck with "wow, you look great!" But not always, and anyway that's vague and can be misinterpreted. Is there a good way to say "I appreciate your appearance craftsmanship"?

ignore

edited 30th Oct '14 11:25:34 PM by MrAHR

Vegetables are gross. They make me gag, or even barf. I can't stand the crunchy texture. They're okay in a stew or puree-ed though, as long as it's soft enough.

Most of them anyway, I do like a few kinds. Corn, peas, potatoes, eggplant, artichoke, and tomatoes (somewhat, like them soft).

edited 31st Oct '14 5:59:26 AM by CassidyTheDevil

Ugh. That reminds me of those 1950s "marriage manuals" for women, which explicitly said "Never let him see you without your makeup on." Women were advised to get up at least an hour earlier than their husbands so that they could be made up and have their hair done when he awoke. And everyone just sort of accepted this as the natural order of things—the preservation of his illusions was more important than her sleep.

Maybe? It's hard for women to accept compliments that acknowledge our efforts because, again, we're not supposed to be exerting any effort to achieve perfection. If a man notices the effort and not just the perfection, we've already failed. But at the same time, like any human, we want our efforts to be acknowledged. It generates a tremendous amount of internal conflict, as you might imagine.