Women's Issues

What has the world come to that basic human decency is considered propaganda?

edited 22nd Sep '14 8:27:43 AM by TobiasDrake

Conspiratorial propaganda.

Depends on what you mean by "basic human decency." I'm sure most people in the world want that (hell, I'd love to have that), but view some of the ones preaching it as moralizing hypocrites who only do so when it's most convenient to them.

I don't think what they label as conspiratorial propaganda is basic human decency. Or rather, they include more into that propaganda than what someone defining it as basic human decency does. Well, to be generous, at least.

Basically, the Golden Rule - One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

The idea of "these people preaching equality are sanctimonious and hypocritical" is one that has got to go. It's two distinct flavors of Ad Hominem rolled into one convenient Family Pack.

I understand that nobody likes snobbish self-righteous goody-goodies, but part of human rights in general is learning how to check your personal ego in the first place. The desire to do good should override personal outrage over how the message is delivered. Yes, I get that lots of people insult or belittle others to give that message, but if you want to do the right thing, "They didn't say it the way I liked it, so I refuse to do anything" is bullshit.

That also goes for hypocrisy. None of us are perfect and even people who try to be the best they can be are going to stumble. As Cracked put it recently, equal rights is a constant uncharted territory that grows murkier and murkier the more you explore it. None of us are diving into it and coming up clean. But, we won't get it any cleanier unless we continue diving into it.

What Zeal said.

"I'm not against the message PER SE, but the way the message was delivered is unacceptable!" is an excuse. It's an easy lie we tell ourselves to avoid the ugly truth, which is, "I'm against the message."

Don't Be That Guy, for instance, becomes "Now, I'm not opposed to rape prevention, but I resent the idea that men commit rape! They should be talking about women rapists! And false rape accusations! This awful, terrible, ugly message just creates more hate, why can't you see that?!"

When the translation is, "This message made me feel uncomfortable for the fact that I've been That Guy on one or two of those, and I don't appreciate the fact that you're calling out what I consider perfectly acceptable behavior as rape-like. Why won't you dumb feminists shut up? Everything was wonderful before you came along."

edited 22nd Sep '14 8:55:23 AM by TobiasDrake

aka The Tone Argument

"Oh, look, what clever children! See them study, watch them learn! How I HATE Those goody goodies, how they make my stomach turn!"

edited 22nd Sep '14 8:58:18 AM by Aszur

"Not Alone" reminds the world that women who have abortions are your mothers, sisters, daughters, and friends.

This is an in-depth project devoted to humanizing abortion by allowing women who have had the procedure the chance to tell their stories and try and curb some of the myths and misinformation about who is getting this done and why.

The bravery of these ladies is amazing and I am very glad that we are having this outlet. No one is giddy to have an abortion and it's a very difficult decision. Instead of demonizing these women, we should be improving the social and health environment so that this procedure is no longer needed.

Oh God.

I can tell you right now that the first thing people are going to say is, "She's obviously not my mother, because mine didn't kill me." That is literally all the opposition is going to focus on.

It's always so easy to claim what something thinks or actually means based on what they say. Doesn't make it less of an attempt at mind-reading, no matter which side is doing it.

I wonder how many would want to reply "sadly" to that.

edited 22nd Sep '14 9:07:37 AM by AnotherDuck

As someone who is vehemently anti-abortion...

" Instead of demonizing these women, we should be improving the social and health environment so that this procedure is no longer needed."

I aprove of this.

Basically, cure the disease, not the symptoms?

I looked up the NY Times article referenced in that article, and came across this beauty of a comment.

edited 22nd Sep '14 9:12:09 AM by probablyinsane

If you want to put it that way, I am not stopping you.

edited 22nd Sep '14 9:13:03 AM by SaintDeltora

Comparing abortions to symptoms of disease isn't helping anything. That sort of language only helps to vilify women, not properly gauge the conditions of which the procedure is required.

I don't think it's a good idea to solve any problem with something as sexist and misandrist as that.

If you want to use that wording to vilify women, be my guest. Can't say I see your point, though.

And I'm not sure how you'd interpret a deliberately simply analogue as an attempt to "properly gauge the conditions of which the procedure is required."

Uhh...sorry to rain on all's parade but, I thought abortion was a forbidden subject?

I was anti-abortion until I learned that like 50% to 70% of pregnancies self-abort themselves, most before the woman even notices she's pregnant.

Yeah, this world is that screwed up.

But it would help equalize things...

edited 22nd Sep '14 9:30:50 AM by probablyinsane

Hasn't it come up several times before in this thread without problems?

No, the difference is about all men from 16 compared to all women who become pregnant and wanting abortion. "Everyone" and "everyone involved" are two different things. It's assuming guilt based on gender.

A more reasonable approach would be to require those who refuse the offer to be liable to economic support should they make someone pregnant (unless they agree on something else).

edited 22nd Sep '14 9:35:38 AM by AnotherDuck

Anti-Abortion is not even a good way to "Save a life" because if you tried that on me, it would just cost two.... There is no way I could go through childbirth and would sooner... yea... :/

From the way you are wording, it seems more like a problem with your seemingly frail physical constitution then with the movement as a whole though.

I wasn't trying to talk about abortion directly, rather the issue of how women are treated. This is a women's issue.

Let's try a different perspective.

When I was 22, I did not have health insurance. I did however, have a 3 month pregnancy that ended in a horrible miscarriage. The only place even willing to give me the emergency D&C I needed was a clinic that also did abortions. They saved my life, kept me from hemorrhaging to death, connected me with the doctor who kept monitoring my anemia and helped continue my quality of life, connected me with counseling resources to deal with the loss of my child, and didn't charge a dime to do it.

But in order for me to get this medical care, I had to be driven past a swarm of angry protesters with disguising signs telling me I was horrible (to put it nicely). I had to be escorted in by an armed security guard.

If we didn't have such hateful views about women who have these procedures, we could have a more productive and candid discussion about how to better implement systems that would make abortion obsolete.

Honestly, I can't help but feel a part of the stigma against abortion is because it's supposedly going against natural maternal instinct. This bothers me because women are often treated and defined only by their reproductive capabilities instead of being treated as an independent being.

I have a pain tolerance of non-existant to clarify.... There is no way that I could go through childbirth. I would not be able to go through hours of labor and be fine on the other end... and would sooner just take a painless alternative.

The worst part is I don't think I would be able to get sterilized and prevent this whole issue in the first place given what I have heard in several places including here. :/

I dont have two kids, I am not over 30, and just as damning is the fact that honestly? I would like children, but I have known for quite some time that having them is not something I could go through, I have a hard enough time explaining this to my friends, I doubt a doctor would understand.