Male Roles Vs. Female Roles in Fiction: Discussion/Analysis/Troperwank

@Imca

Having the medical knowledge to prevent Furiosa from bleeding to death, getting rid of the Warboys sabotaging the War Rig while Furiosa was driving, what Garcon said, providing cover for Furiosa and giving something for Imortan Joe to shoot at and on the end he is the one who convinces that Furiosa and the Vulvanis best hope was to come back to the fortress instead of crossing the desert.

Max contribution was that he is able at combat and survival, he was an extra set of hands you need to get things done.

It was a well done movie, both male and female protagonists were competent and capable, unlike movies with female protagonists where having a penis either meant that you're either the villain or a moron or movies where the female characters are there just for the audience to have someone to ogle and for the protagonist to rescue.

edited 28th Jul '15 1:30:28 PM by AngelusNox

chain a tree was good for a moment but clearly Nux take better because he change side and star helping, doing more in that moment, and as far I remenber Max just came up with a plan to return, aside for that he is just a prop who shoot bullets

edited 28th Jul '15 1:30:55 PM by unknowing

All of Max's contributions came across as far more sidekick contributions than anything. Yes, he did stuff to further the plot, but just about everyone else did more. He's not a lump, but he's not quite the protagonist and that's fine. That's awesome. He's a great secondary character.

Even less because he barely interact with anyone else, or his trauma is glossed over, he is again a prop that shoot and barely anything else

Also the main point is that the movie dosent get any real reason about why shouldcare about Max because what with him osent go further, like those vision he kept having, I get he is mad but....why? and how much it does afect him? consider the movie manage to care about the wives(who in other movies will be just a bunch of human macguffins) Nux(who is a psychopath mindchild) even the Vulvanix(who show out very latter in the film) Max comes across as...just this dude who is there for....reasons.

edited 28th Jul '15 2:26:13 PM by unknowing

So Mad Max: Fury Road, is neither about a man who is Mad named Max, or about a Road that is also angry!?!?

WHAT A SCAM OF A MOVIE

"That's not his blood."

Max does get shit done. And he does it gloriously. He just doesn't need the audience to pat him on the back every five seconds to be a badass.

Just like very faux action girl is badass for taking mooks amd having a obligatory escene or two.

Also the poitn it isnt about badssery, is that Mad is more of a living probe who just shoot, there is soporting protagonist but this is ergorgious, dosent it?

Imca: Because, as Angelus undirectly pointed out Mad Max is actually a franchise and Fury Road is the 4th movie of the séries.

And Max is the protagonist of the franchise.

edited 28th Jul '15 5:08:59 PM by SaintDeltora

I would say Max does certainly have development. I don't know how you could ever miss that. At the beginning of the movie, he cares only about his own survival, and actually has to be carefully talked out of just selling the Wives back to Joe, on the basis that Joe wouldn't spare him after he "damaged" one of his wives. He's too immersed in his own past trauma to care about anything except basic survival. His partnership with Furiosa starts off as simply a grudging alliance of convenience, but turns into an actual respecting friendship over the course of the movie, with Max coming to appreciate their struggle even at a point where he could just leave them behind.

In fact, as I sit here thinking about it, the less I understand this talk that Max is lacking in development. He arguably changes more over the course of the movie than any other character except Nux. In fact, there's an easy case to be made that Furiosa is essentially a Static Character in comparison.

edited 28th Jul '15 5:47:43 PM by DrDougsh

Max has always been on the sidelines. I am watching the original Mad Max now. He hasnt really done anything yet. His world is the star. His teammates (Wife isnt dead yet here) and he is almost an audience surragate really.

And who the hell cares if the series is named after him? He is an element, not a protagonist and there is nothing wrong with that.

If anything, men should be happy to have a variety and subtle or reluctant hero be celebrated. It is some thing different.

You want guns a blazing balls in your face you can have your Rambos, Jack Ryans, Jack Reachers, Arnolds in any of his roles, Judge Dredds, Batmans, Walkers, Top Guns, and Transporters.

You can even have your comical badassess like Jackie Chan and Terry Crews.

Then there is your subtle and wirey badasses like John Wick, No Country for Old Men, and Robins.

I could go all day with this.

Seriously. There is nothing to bitch about.

Speaking of which Dredd's take on Judge Anderson was really good, as well Momma being a hella of a scary villain.

Whenever Anderson and Ray got together you could expect something awesome or interesting to happen, specially the mind rape scene when Ray thought he was in control only for Anderson to show him how wrong he was.

here's a question though: what is a "formulaic white guy"? what part of him is formulaic? is it mostly defined by his ethnicity, or does it need to be accompanied by something else? What makes Scott Lang formulaic? Is Tony Stark formulaic? what would take to make these characters more interesting without changing their race?

of course, these are partly rhetorical questions because I understand what you mean. i was actually watching the girl with the dragon tattoo a few days ago and my brother pointed out how much more interesting the female character was than the lead white guy (who in my opinion was pretty bland), so i think this is something that has more or less been happening for a while and is just now being noticed more due to the social climate we find ourselves in. this isn't even just a thin in film either and isn't even just limited to women. Orangeis The New Black had a "trojan horse" in Piper Chapman; she was the premise which was used to introduce people to the series, but I believe Jenji Kohan said it was more or less just a gateway to tell all these stories she had in mind about underprivileged women. most people agree that piper is one of the least interesting characters in the show and she's become less and less prominent with each season.

"He is an element, not a protagonist and there is nothing wrong with that."

Thing is...he IS the protagonist, maybe no the hero but we follow him, also the movie give us this visión of kid who call him...why bother if he is just a element? It just jarring.

"If anything, men should be happy to have a variety and subtle or reluctant hero be celebrated. It is some thing different."

Yeah it is...so? Because something is diferent dosent meant you cant point something about it, also this means nothing since Furiosa is the hero

Also what I want it some lines about Mad past or about the things he kept seen it, if the movie give Furiosa motivation for such insane idea in a couple of minutes them why no something about Max and his trauma?

"Seriously. There is nothing to bitch about."

Good to know that my only point about the movie is not "bitching" about it.

@Fury Road: Remember this is just first movie based on a script that became so huge over the 30 years due to them adding backstory, more locations, more characters etc that they split it in three. Next part of the script is called The Wasteland and at least Max is in it because Hardy is on for three more movies due to his contract.

Miller talked about a movie called Furiosa back in 2010 but we have no idea if that was the working title for Fury Road or a movie without Max taking place before or after Fury Road. Theron apparently didn't want to sign a multi film contract so we have no idea if she simply decided to not come back after Fury Road.

edited 29th Jul '15 12:46:00 AM by LordofLore

Well, why bother with the viewpoints of characters like Watson, Ishmael or Scout when we could just be following Sherlock Holmes, Captain Ahab or Atticus Finch? Seriously, having the "protagonist" be someone else than the main "hero" isn't exactly a new or fresh concept.

The whole entry and dream sequence is all about Max's trauma. All those lovely flashbacks and nightmares? Well done actually.

We get more of Max's development through action. Notice his defensive body language and furtive behavior when he first meets the others? And as he gains their trust and they gain his, he stands up straighter and is more confident. He also is always quiet.

Second point, this is part of a series with three previous installments. Some series are made with stand alone chapters some aren't. This one is a good balance between both.

Should we just rename the franchise? Should we just regurgitate the same thing? Make him another Indiana Jones, Mac Gyver, or any other genetic white man action hero whoop!

I appreciate the variety. I like having a hero who is more subtle and interesting. I appreciate the director trusting my intellegence to know how to interpret character development through action.

And George Miller is an exceptional action director. Just watching the first one and seeing how he works his camera and his ability to maintain view points (you never get confused over where someone is in relation to another or sense of time passing).

Honestly I think this is part of why Fury Road is getting so much acclaim. It is smart. It is well crafted. And it just tells a fun story in a competant way. And because of this, people are clammering for it. It is like throwing bread to a starving crowd.

I stumbled across a cool link to a picture gallery on Facebook, called "Elementos Quimicos" that is a set of designs for each element in the periodic table, each one drawn as a person. I have to give it props because despite having several typical perfectionist-style females, it also has other body types as well, including overweight, and while Nitrogen is a pair of women obscured only by drapes of cloth, right after it is Oxygen as a pair of men obscured only by drapes of cloth.

You know what was the nationality or at least language of the people involved?

Because that name sounds disturbingly Portuguese if you ask me.

No idea, but if you search for it you might come up with more information.

Is this it?

The page won't load for me. But if it's every element from 1 to 114, with a single line about the element and a neat piece of artwork, then yes.

Loaded for me and it does seem to be it, yes.

The link I posted only goes to the 61th, I think.

"The whole entry and dream sequence is all about Max's trauma. All those lovely flashbacks and nightmares? Well done actually."

Them will have to disagree here, because for me was pointless as hell since it never goes anywhere it, not even a line or something, its just.....there.

"We get more of Max's development through action. Notice his defensive body language and furtive behavior when he first meets the others?"

That said more of his nature in distrusting other, which is speak more of the situation(after all he is drag into the whole mess between Furiosa and Joe) than Max itself.

"Should we just rename the franchise? Should we just regurgitate the same thing? Make him another Indiana Jones, Mac Gyver, or any other genetic white man action hero whoop!"

Maybe just reference something so the chararter feel more of a chararter? im not asking more, and as advice, maybe you should stop the strawman you already use the post before, please?

"I appreciate the variety. I like having a hero who is more subtle and interesting. I appreciate the director trusting my intellegence to know how to interpret character development through action."

There is sublety and there is explaing nothing, when Max talk to furiosa it explain anything we need of her, with max?...not even close, having nightmare and them ask us to figure out is not good chararterizacion, not matter how much variaty is in a movie.

But im going to stop here because im deraling the whole thing, if you want to continue we could do it in the Mad max thread.

That been said, I see the "elementos quimicos" and yeah, there seen to be a lot of body types there, which is cool

Musing on the ending to Legend Of Korra, the reception to Korrasami's canonization was a solid illustration of the way LGBT women are viewed today.

When Korrasami came out, the fandom was split down the middle between fans who had been waiting eagerly for this but didn’t expect to see it, and fans who were outraged that Korra wasn’t hooking back up with Mako like she was “supposed” to.

Because while most men agree that Girl on Girl Is Hot, it stops being sexy when it interferes with male romantic entitlement.