The Art World Market Vs Everything Else In The Arts

Writing things will not get you recognized.

The vast majority of people care nothing about what you write. Actually, pretty much everyone will care nothing about what you write. I'm in fact having trouble finding a single reader for what I write. Writing is a very time-consuming art for people to consume so there is always much, much more of it than anyone cares to read. Writing is a very, very bad way to get attention. Writing is pretty much a joke. The only reason to write is because you can't stop yourself.

I agree with Meta Four and Cats. Go read what I wrote about this in the "Insecurity, Sadness and Anxiety" thread.

edited 31st Jan '13 2:30:16 PM by MidnightRambler

And why can't people like what they like? I mean I like Ke$ha and I like A Game of Thrones and I like Homestuck but at the same time I can like indie bands and Dotsoevsky and Elisworth Kelley and Anselm Kiefer and whatnot. Why can't people like what they like and just go with it? Why does everything have to be so scathing and mean?

I blame hipsters.

I'd have to agree. Have you noticed how people are always telling to you to "think for yourself," "be different from the rest of the peer group," and all that good stuff, and then when you actually do those things, you get criticized for it?

Drunkscriblerian and I were talking about that the other day. We both agreed that a large part of the reason why more kids have issues with depression and low self-esteeem isn't because schools are teaching them that they're special like a lot of people say, but because they're teaching them they're special, and then acting as if that's a bad thing.

I think it'd make a world of difference if we told kids they're special, then made a point of celebrating their uniqueness in ways that don't make them feel ashamed about it.

Non Conformity is embraced in theory but not in practice.

Did I ever tell you guys I once submitted an atheist Photoshop parody of the Sistine Chapel ceiling where Charles Darwin touched a monkey's finger? And that I helped my atheist friend do this and submit it to the Religious Art Prize at my school and we got in, despite only one of us (him) being an atheist?

Some men just want to watch the world burn I guess.

But yeah, hipsters love to hate on things, ironically or not. Which is why I don't feel comfortable being labeled as one by people because of my profession as of now.

edited 31st Jan '13 6:55:51 PM by NewGeekPhilosopher

Pretty sure Darwin was more into finches than monkeys. :o

We had to find an image that could be pasted over Adam well enough. We found a Chimp photo which was reaching out at the exact same angle, and we pulled a Marcel Du Champ "how do we get this into this distinctively selective art gallery exhibit" gambit.

I think then and there was the moment I realised I could not only use art to provoke people, but to bond with other people I'd befriended who had similar ideas about the role of creativity.

Also I owed him one for exposing me to Douglas Adams. Who we also made into an Atheist Artwork by shoppin' the God Delusion cover background with Douglas Adam wearing a Towel over his shoulders and an Atom Halo. It was a "Atheist Un-Religious Icon" meant to represent Douglas Adams as the first convert to atheism. Yes, I do work incredibly hard to make subtle jokes in my work by researching extensively.

The Bohr Model is outdated silly. :3

I've never quite understand the do art because you want to be liked, or loved or whatever. I write because I have a compulsion, I don't write well, but I write. It gets rid of the compulsion and I can move on. Until it strikes again.

I have both the compulsion to write/make things as WELL as the compulsion to be famous. The compulsion to be famous only kicked into gear after the abandonment issues started to appear in my life.

Before say, 2007, I'd already been writing stuff since I was twelve, it was the start of something awesome, but I don't know why I made the decision to put Mongols in Dark Ages Britain.

@New Geek Philosopher Ah, well I can't really help you with that. As I'm sure it stems from stuff, I have no idea how to deal with. And the idea of wanting to become famous is so alien to me. But good look with that I guess.

NGP: Honestly, if you really do have the drive to want to be famous and recognized, then you really need to work at it. Not just on making damn sure your works are good, but also on making the necessary contacts in order to ensure this (e.g.: getting an agent, shopping around to publishing houses, even doing commissioned work for things you might not necessarily like or be interested in to get your name out there and pay the bills—some may call it selling out, but I call it one of the very few ways you can actually be successful in the arts).

Just be careful not to confuse fame and fortune with validation, being listened to and understood, and not being put under pressure and scrutiny. If you do, then John Lennon, David Bowie, Kurt Cobain, and I'm sure countless others would like to have a word with you.

I think my humbling admission that 12 year old me put Mongols in Dark Ages Fantasy Britain was a sign that I wasn't so up myself at one point.

That and I once submitted Warhammer 40,000 fanfic to a school assignment on "Write a story about a profession you want to be". I got good marks.

EDIT: I read Kurt Cobain's biography Heavier Than Heaven, I have a first edition hardcover of it in fact. I found his life was much more interesting to read about than some of his music was. Also at some point in Heavier Than Heaven the author points out that Kurt Cobain may have raped a disabled woman. And this is the biography Courtney Love ALLOWED TO BE PRINTED.

edited 31st Jan '13 8:49:46 PM by NewGeekPhilosopher

just notifying to flux arrows and respond plz

@NGP: ...that unfortunate detail aside, you do get what I am saying, yes? No?

EDIT: Also, re: that book:

edited 31st Jan '13 8:53:10 PM by 0dd1

I was trying to reply to your flux arrows but these threads keep jumping around. I would have replied to both if you could.

The worst part of it all is, I read several Cracked articles in the past that indicate a desire to be famous is often a response to horrendous neglect of family members to care about what you're doing with your creative talents.

And only last week I came to my brother with an idea for something I'd been working on, and he said "Eh, can you bother me with this when I'm not watching TV?". Eerie it was.

Yes I get what you're saying, at least with the Kurt Cobain bit, since Kurt Cobain was cited as a prime example of what that Cracked article was talking about.

EDIT AGAIN: It's also worth considering what definition of "fame" you run on. If we're talking "I get published at all, people read my work" I'd be pretty happy with that, but I'm not deluded that far to imagine book authors get chased down by the Paparazzi. In fact, my career plan is to release the hard edged angry books while I'm young, then come out with a bunch of children's books.

I call it the Ice Cube Method, but you guys call it Rated G for Gangsta. I could live with being Ralph Bakshi famous where people are aware of me within a small community of devoted fans, but I couldn't live with being Katy Perry famous, because my boobs are never gonna be that good. Yeah I said it. Medication side effects, what of it?

EDIT YET AGAIN:

I think the reason why I started this thread just looped back around to itself, since I began to become a writer/photographer/artist because I wanted to reach people, even if I wasn't famous, but various unfortunate events happened where I started to think nobody would want to listen or enjoy what I had to offer if I wasn't famous, hence the whole latching onto the superstar creator persona.

In reality I'm more interested in reaching people than being rich or famous, and I tried to start this thread in an attempt to explain my views on the popular arts and the various ways they're distributed (books, eBooks, iTunes/C Ds, DV Ds/Blu Rays, Youtube/Vimeo) as more effective at reaching people than existing art world models tending to an elitist rich list consumer market. At this point it's probably a case of me desiring to reach a larger audience than nothing which is what I have now, than any desire to challenge Kanye West's claim to celebrity.

Also, I seem to suffer from this awful, horrendous bipolar peak and trough hubris. *shakes fist at sky* HUUUUUUUBBBBRIIIIIIISSSS!

The hubris is what drives me sometimes, for better or worse, but what keeps me coming back to my creative work is a desire to reach people. Some of you mentioned selling out, which brought me to contemplate whether selling out as a later career path like William S Burroughs did for NIKE or what not would be both hilarious and avant garde. Besides, one of the key goals of my artistic practice is to become mainstream enough to infect popular culture with my controversial ideals, namely to do with anti-MPAA/RIAA internet culture and an end to region coding, as well as making Americans (and others) how damned awful it is for nerds in countries where DV Ds go out of print and the higher ups in America just don't bother to re release them. I'm a very web culture minded guy in both my creative work and my social awareness.

I think this is closer to a definition of "why I want to be famous/mainstream" than "I just wanna be rich and famous" - not to mention a more satisfactory answer.

It's about toppling archaic distribution models with DIY aesthetics. And internet era gangsta rap influenced counter culture.

edited 31st Jan '13 10:04:13 PM by NewGeekPhilosopher

I guess I don't understand.

All I want is a friend who will read my stuff and tell me it's good and that this stupid compulsive habit is not ruining my life. I do not understand the whole "fans" thing. Having a following never seemed that great...

I think I just make stuff cause making stuff is fun. :3

Having validation for something you're incapable of stopping is nice, otherwise you end up in support groups and talking to shrinks about how to stop forever :(

:< But arting is cool, stopping forever sounds like it'd suck!

It does suck, but when addiction happens usually your only option is cold turkey.

Hm. :/