Views on the Status of Marriage

Found some interesting things.

The first article says that millenials who put off marriage forever are in danger of becoming poverty-stricken, and the second says that we live in an era where the middle class and lower are seeing marriage as more of a burden than a blessing.

So that's something! Especially where the first article calls millenials "the much-maligned generation born in the 1980s through the early 2000s, raised on Harry Potter and 9/11, tech-savvy children of doting parents now entering a work world shaking from the Great Recession."

It's so insulting...but, rather accurate.

For the first few years of my cognizant life I had thought about getting married. Then by college I thought "Why bother? Too much hassle."

I'd still believe that with a job and a place of my own I wouldn't need to marry anybody.

Yeah, the situation's been turned into one where it's extremely hard to reach the point where you can think "I have some financial stability in my life, so I think I can get married."

Not Three Laws compliant.

What does men and the idea of "not all men" have to do with "the status of marriage"? I thought I'd accidentally stumbled into one of there sexism threads when I read the latest post.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Had to hunt through the top 20 or so otc threads to find what I got thumped for

I'm baaaaaaack

-Looks through last page's posts-

This gotta be the first time I see a Moderator being Thumped.

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!

It happens. More often with some than others.

So, marriage?

I'm baaaaaaack

/Yeah I would say it's more of sign of economic downturn then a wider more permanent social move away from marriage. In times of strife People aren't about to settle down.

The flip side is while ironically the marriage rate has dropped sharply in recent years, so too has divorce rate. People don't have the financial safety net to spilt up like they use to.

Every cloud

edited 28th Jul '14 7:39:22 AM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

If (if!) A lower divorce rate is for the reason you mention, that's no silver lining, that's a double whammy. Couples being miserable yet staying together because a divorce would be financially disastrous, is not a good thing. And as far as any kids are concerned, it implies being with parents probably angry at one another and close enough to show it, and that the parents are struggling and so without as many resources as might be to take care of the child.

Also, in a situation where parents are not getting along, and continue to not get along because they can't split up, their behavior tends to get picked up by the kids later on in their lives.

Although... what about separation? Or whatever the term is for that thing where the parents aren't divorced, but they don't live in the same house anymore. Is that a thing?

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

Back in the day it was big, you have to do that for two years before you could officially get divorced.

Before the recession people were rushing in and out of marriage with out a care in the world. Now people are taking things a bit more seriously and not doing things on a impulse. Honestly I think that's a good thing

edited 29th Jul '14 6:15:55 PM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

Is this thread still specifically about the status of marriage in society, or has it become about marriage in general? Because I have a question that has been bugging me for a while: How does international recognition of foreign marriages work? After all, even in among the developed countries of the "First World", marriage laws differ on a variety of issues from one sovereign state to another, with marriagable age and same-sex marriages being the most common/obvious points of difference. And then there are the many other countries with more exotic and controversial (from the Western POV) marital practices, such as the widespread legalization of polygamy throughout many of the Islamic world's member countries.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

It's a case by case thing. The US is tricky, like foreign diplomats can have polygamy but only if they're here in a diplomatic capacity but the common man can't regardless of status.

Immigration reform has come under fire because visa's aren't being fairly applied so it's possible for someone's spouse to be deported if they're not careful with their visas and other paperwork.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

What of the principle of "comity" (a state should give as much respect for another state's "legislative, executive or judicial acts" over its citizens as the latter does to the former's own) and the Hague Marriage Convention (which admittedly only has three member states in it)?

edited 24th Nov '14 9:28:45 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

What about it?

Im not sure what you're needing.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

I'm trying to understand what possible consequences (if any) could be faced if, say, a polygamous/-gynous/-androus family from a country where polygamy/-gyny/-andry is legal (whether said country is real or fictional) travels to a country where such practices are very illegal and heavily detested by its society. Or, alternatively, if a couple travels to a country under which jurisdiction one or both of them would be considered below the marriageable age (even though they'd be legally marriageable in their own country). The way you put it, it seems like the common people shouldn't expect that the principle of comity would shield them.

edited 25th Nov '14 12:11:24 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I can only speak on the US side, but if you are just visiting, like a tourist, we could probably give a family visa except you would have to explain how they are family and that could be an issue.

But if you wanted to live here or get a green card, then no.

Underaged marriage and pologymy is illegal. Especially underaged marriage. We consider that child abuse.

edited 25th Nov '14 3:50:33 AM by Gabrael

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

And herein lies a crucial problem: There is no federal age of marriage, and all of the several States set their respective ages as 18 (barring Nebraska [at 19] and Mississipi [at 21]). And though they do have provisions for parental conset regarding people below that age (within an arbitrarily reasonable limit, of course, that varies between jurisdictions; most allow it to a minimum of 16, while some lower it further to 14), I have no idea whether or not the judicial system has any power to overrule said consent ^note which, if they do, may be a problem for foreign couples.

I don't think I need to tell you that accusing a newly wed South Korean man who is applying for a green card to reside in the state of Delaware of child abuse simply because his wife is just one year below sounds really ridiculous. (No, really. A South Korean woman may marry at age 15 with parental consent.)^note And for the record, there are more than a few European countries that have similar age laws — including the decidely democratic state of Denmark.

PS: If you're wondering, it's all for some stories that I have in the works and which may or may not touch upon a variety of social/legal issues in one way or the other.

edited 25th Nov '14 5:14:28 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Just because they apply for green card doesn't mean we're going to press charges. We get that not everything we do is legal in other places. That doesn't mean that we import things we find illegal easily or without issue.

Like caning. We honor the right for Singapore to give our tourists a couple of lashes for littering, but that doesn't mean we're going to sit back and let a Singapore visitor or green card holder cane someone here.

If anything, there is a good chance that their paperwork could be held until the wife meets our age of consent. That's happened before. But we don't allow multiple spouses.

And you know what? I don't think we have to. I don't think we should. I don't think that's a problem. If you want to be in a country, then you need to agree to abide by the laws of that country or stay out of it. I have no problems wearing the hijab or even a full burka if I wish to visit certain countries. I also have no problems with getting strapped if I do something stupid. Different countries have different hate crime and hate speech standards. Doesn't mean we should change ours. Japan will go after you with full effect of the law if you bring in drugs or hide anything on your customs card. Countries have the right to do that.

As long as the rules are being applied fairly and are transparent in what you're expected to do/be, then I have no problem with that.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Whether or not you or anyone else have to isn't the point. All I wanted was to get sufficient information to be able to portray how things could go in a realistic manner if I ever touch upon the topic in my stories.

That said... How different is the aforementioned Hague Marriage Convention from what already happens in most countries? Or, to put it in other words, suppose that all countries become parties to said Convention; what would change?

edited 25th Nov '14 6:56:36 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Marriages would be honored regardless of where you were. It would be interesting to see if no one signs the Divorce Convention.

But I don't see that happening in my lifetime nor the lifetime of my son. Maybe after that.

Honestly I don't think that's a major priority and most of the people affected by this like those with multiple spouses, have a lot on their plate that they would butt heads with if they crossed into another country.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

At first glance, yeah, that's what it looks like. But it appears that some of the Convention's articles may allow loopholes for a contracting state to implement exceptions.

Here's the full text. Article 14 is of particular interest, though I'm not sure I correctly understand the legalese of the other articles.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.