Human Enhancement

Actually, that would depend on the biocompatibility of the material that is being inserted. The most-likely working scenario is that the body get used to the implant and form some sort of membrane around the implant (cannot remember what it is on top of my head. Have to dig through my lecture notes again), which may or may not impede contact between electrodes and neurons (the neurons are activated by the electrodes via the electromagnetic field afterall, which can go through tissue). This explains how the body got "stfu" and the pain earlier (inflammation before the body goes "I don't like you, but I cannot get rid of you. So I isolate you instead.").

It is finding the material with the best biocompatibility that is the problem. Currently, cochlear implants (an example of real-life cyborgs) uses platinum electrodes which are very inert (and thus very biocompatible) but also very expensive. I would guess that the newest prosthesis connecting directly to nerves to be platinum too (though Cochlear (R) might have patented that...).

I actually did some research on glial scarring and how exactly it works, and it actually isn't that big of an issue. For some forms of modification it could be a complication, but for the more mechanical ones based around physical functionality and not sticking tons of shit in your spinal cord, it is apparently not that big of a problem.

This is a really good article that features an in-depth comparison of how Deus Ex handled the whole glial tissue thing, and how glial scarring and glial cells actually work.

Of particular note and emphasis.

edited 17th Mar '13 10:57:56 PM by Barkey

At least they did the research. Most movies, tv shows and even video games are all science is bad...

On biocompatible materials. Stuff like Gortex and Titanium work fairly well. I have both Gortex (fake cheeks long story) and titanium plates, pins, and screws in my face. Part of the reasons they used the titanium is it becomes less bonded to the body so if say i develop a serious infection in those areas they can remove the metal bits more easily.

Okay so maybe glial tissue buildup isn't as big of a concern as I thought.

I guess it depends on where and how much of it is being augmented and what kind of material is being used

The biggest real barrier right now is only what we know, we've made leaps and bounds in the last decade on being able to integrate nerves with manmade circuitry, as well as a better understanding of the concept of neuroplasticity. It'll come with time, but prosthetics are getting more and more advanced, and now one of the only real issues presenting itself is understanding how to properly connect enough different nerves to obtain fine motor control equal to the genuine article.

It's why legs are so much easier than hands. We've gotten really good at prosthetic legs to where people with them can live almost completely normal lives as if they never lost the originals. Hands are significantly more difficult because of the massive number of nerves used to send signals and make complex motor movements. It's just going to take lots of time and effort of "mapping" the nerves in the hands and arms to get that down-pat.

It's like if you were setting up keybindings in an FPS, but where it has the listed action and then the bound key next to it, we've figured out how to bind keys, but much of the actions are just listed as ??? and require trial and error to figure out.

edited 19th Mar '13 7:58:42 PM by Barkey

Titanium for structure, ceramics for joints. Well, unless someone wants a bearing of some kind. I suppose you could use a bushing if you had some kind of seal around it as you really don't want brass/bronze/graphite shavings in your blood stream.

Saw this in the news about a Boston explosion victim.

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/boston-victim-heather-abbott-faced-with-agonising-choice-over-foot-amputation/story-fndir2ev-1226628237209

Basically given the choice between trying to save her damaged foot or amputating it she chooses amputation on the grounds her foot would never properly heal and a custom prosthetic would be better in the long run.

It's relevant as it's an example of of 'elective amputation', she still had a limited functioning limb and it didn't pose an immediately health risk but she still went for the amputation and prosthetic replacement because it promised her are greater return to her normal life.

While Artificial Limbs are still inferior to those of an able bodied person's, we have reach a point where people are choosing them over keeping what damage but still saveable limbs they have still got. This article goes into greater detail about it in realation to returned servicemen.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/2011-04-12-troops-amputee-prosthetic-Iraq-Afghanistan.htm

edited 7th May '13 8:57:19 AM by joeyjojo

Honestly dude, I think the prosthetic feet are starting to get better performance-wise than the real ones. Just look at what a badass Pistorius is.

edited 7th May '13 1:30:22 PM by Barkey

Well, I haven't heard a major fuss about it (people choosing artificial limbs over a saveable limb) yet. Guess that it'll just be one of those things that get transited so slowly that most of us won't be realising it until we all go "oh, we get to this point? We're actually ok with this."

edited 7th May '13 3:35:10 PM by IraTheSquire

Still a crap shot but.

No one is causing a fuss about it. But it's some thing that ethical medical board should start taking into consideration. Quite frankly Heather medical advice comes across as biased. Although it is a human interest story so that is to be expected.

Think about what Barkey just posted.

50 years ago amputation was the end of the world for many people. A soldier just graduated the US Army Air Assault course (fast roping and all) with an artificial leg.

Soon we may have an exo-skeleton so the paralyzed can walk.

If rich a-holes with time and money want to lop off perfectly working limbs, I say let'em. Someone has to be in guinea pig.

edited 7th May '13 4:08:45 PM by TairaMai

I think we're are being a little too optimistic about prosthetics. Oscar's 'blade' style artificial limbs do allow him to run faster then a normal unaltered human. But only over flat and even ground such as race rack. The day-to-most day to day activities they still come up short.

That's not to say prosthetic limbs will never become outright better then real ones. That day is quickly approaching. However we are not at that stage yet.

edited 7th May '13 6:56:23 PM by joeyjojo

Well, as you say, the story is focused on Heather and her strength and survival, so I'm not quite sure how accurate the portrayal of the medical advice given to her is as it is not really relevant, given the focus was on the "she had to make a hard choice between keeping her foot that will give her pain and not heal properly or amputation and prosthetics".

What I am saying is that we're now so used to replacing body parts with prosthetics now that we don't seem to care at all if somebody picks prosthetics over their own limbs, which indicates to me that the whole "singularity" or "the day that we replace our bodies with robotics" is not going to come suddenly as in sci-fi, but will come so gradually that when the first person does it all we do will be just a "meh".

edited 7th May '13 5:08:47 PM by IraTheSquire

Sometimes I wish people would just go with amputation and prosthetics.

I just recently took a job where I work with those so disabled they cannot live alone. Let's just say there are some, even my younger ones, (under 16yrs) who I just wish their parents would consider it.

I work with people with disabilities myself so I see that a lot myself.

I can't say what's better for the patient but it would certainly make my job easier.

edited 7th May '13 8:08:11 PM by joeyjojo

I get that amputation isn't something easy, but geebus...its bad enough my gentlemen have developmental disabilities, adding the absurd lengths they have to go through in order to try and accommodate dead limbs.

I think that is the biggest issue some people have with human enhancement is that they get caught up in the sanctity of the flesh because they can't separate the human spirit from the pile of wormsmeat that surrounds it.

The body is a tool of the spirit. However, people would disagree with me, and so some try to preserve the body even at the cost of the quality of that human's life.

That's a nice philosophy, but not many people share it. Bob Marley died from a treatable foot infection because his Rastafari beliefs mean he had to be 'whole' in body and spirit.

edited 7th May '13 8:27:51 PM by joeyjojo

As a child who was once was in danger of never walking again (had a pretty serious accident as a child) I have to say... I'd have been massively upset if my parents had decided to have my foot amputated. I mean yeah, it was raw meat for a while, and I was very young, but I can't say that I would have been happy about my parents making a decision like that without getting my input.

Further information: I was nine and essentially had my foot crushed by a garbage truck. Somehow my bones didn't break, but my nerves were essentially shredded. Doctors apparently told my parents I wouldn't walk again, but my parents didn't tell me that and just shoved me into physical therapy. I was walking without problems in less than a year. I pretty much beat the odds on that one. Foot looks kinda like a football, though.

American football or European?

Are you trying to recruit her?

Anyway, to be fair though, it's not a bad idea to keep the foot for a while as there might be a chance that it heals. You can always get it amputated and replaced with prosthetics later on when it becomes clear that it's never going to heal properly (and prosthetics will mean less pain but similar or even better functionality than a broken foot).

edited 7th May '13 9:02:56 PM by IraTheSquire

Joey I don't.... American. It's more the skin that looks funky, but my foot is a bit of a misshapen blob. Mostly I have difficulty finding shoes that fit: I'm serious when I say I lucked out in this. I walk perfectly normally, and most people don't even know anything's wrong unless they happen to have the odd chance to look at my feet. And you really don't do that much in a day, even if everyone's wearing sandals.

Ira, I'm a woman.

edited 7th May '13 8:58:56 PM by AceofSpades

I know the feeling on the physical therapy thing. I had two rods put in each of my legs, and from what I was told I'd have a limp for years, possibly for life, and that there's no way I'd be able to stay in the military.

Well fuck those guys, said I, I was able to get walking with ok form, and then I threw away my crutches before I went in for my medical board examination and they said I was good to go to stay in. I do still have a bit of a tic in my walk though, but it's only when I turn. Instead of pivoting without lifting my foot off the ground, I lift, turn, put my foot down, and then do the same thing with the other foot. But I run a few miles a day now, the human body is amazing in its capacity for recovery if you want it bad enough.

Yeah, my dad was a former Marine, so I figure that had a lot to do with that particular decision. And, in the long run, it turned out to be the right one.

Like I said, I was never told the doctors had said that, and being nine I just sort of assumed I always was going to walk again because my parents were pretty much making me at that point. Not without tears and frustration and a few tantrums, mind you, but I did.

edited 7th May '13 9:16:45 PM by AceofSpades

Like I said, its a matter of degree. I have one boy who is 15 and his feet are literally dead. He walks on his leg bones with his feet dragging behind. He is also severely autistic.

Now if his feet were gone, he could be fitted with AC Os, springs, or any other prosthetics. He could actually walk instead of wearing down his bones, crawling on his knees, or being stuck in a chair.