About Trope Repair Shop - Draft Thread

This thread is a draft for a Trope Repair Shop "about" thread like the IP stuff thread in Image Pickin'.

When to create a Trope Repair Shop thread:

First off, read What Goes Where In The Forums and the Projects Directory for topics that have their own threads. Also look up old topics and the renaming guidelines – the latter especially when you are arguing for a rename. Please take time to read these, it can avoid embarrassing errors and complaints later on.

To wit, these are the usual reasons to make a thread here, each tagged with its own TRS tag (we only allow preselected names in order to force people to state the problem and avoid overly-dramatic titles):

• The trope definition is unclear or ambiguous. This can be a sign that there is more than one trope, it can cause misuse etc. Mind that bad descriptions (as opposed to definitions) have their own thread and some trope definition issues can be settled in Trope Talk
• The page is really a Useful Note, or better suited for that.
• The page is mostly used for Complaining. This is usually when the trope concept itself invites this behaviour – if the complaining is mostly limited to the examples, this thread is the place for you.
• The trope is not actually a trope as per Not a Trope, because it’s actually People Sit on Chairs, a meme or any other reason given on that page that discourages such entries.
• The trope is a duplicate of an already existing one. In this case, it’s usually better to tag the inferior page (less wicks, inbounds, examples, worse name etc.)
• The page is in lack of examples, wicks and especially inbounds, when it has been around a long time and has been properly crosswicked (For pages that didn’t get crosswicked, see here). Please do not make threads about recently launched pages, these go here.
• The examples (both on the page or in wicks) disagree with the description, i.e the trope is misused. Note that you’ll almost certainly be asked to do a Wick Check if you are claiming this.
• The trope’s name is ambiguous, like when it’s e.g also the name of a work, sounds like a different trope or is a line of dialogue. Since we used to get many spurious threads for this, please make sure you’re familiar with When To Rename A Trope before making such a thread, especially the section on when not to make a thread. For one thing, you'll be expected to show actual problems caused by the ambiguity.
• The page’s name is a snowclone in violation of the guidelines spelled out at Everythings Worse With Snowclones. Again, keep in mind the guidelines spelled out in When To Rename A Trope.
• The page needs help in any other fashion, and the issue doesn’t have its own venue listed [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13436529430A28600100&page=1#2 here]. Please do not make cleanup threads under this, these go to Short Term Projects.

Please do not make Trope Repair Shop threads for the following:

• Adding examples or removing misuse from the page - if anything, you can post about it in the discussion page. Also, "I don't know the work" isn't a reason to hesitate - if an example doesn't seem to fit the description from reading alone, it should be removed, ideally to the discussion page with an edit reason.
• Clean up - it's likely that there is a dedicated thread listed here. And you can create a thread in Projects: Short Term for other cleanup-only things.
• Figuring out details about the trope definition - these usually run in Trope Talk.
• Bringing up the same issue over and over. We don't like people gaming the TRS system to get a result they want.
• Complaining about pages/policy/names.
• It is not necessary to announce minor clean-up projects, except if there is already a thread in one of the Project fora.
• If the proposed change is minor nitpicking, it's probably pointless to start a TRS thread - it will either quickly turn into "get on with it" or will be tossed out after lengthy discussion that leads nowhere.

How to make a Trope Repair Shop

So, when you have decided that the issue needs Trope Repair Shop attention, make a thread, state your case in the OP and add the page’s title as a link to the page, in CamelCase to the relevant box in the createconversation function.

Sometimes, you’ll get a notice telling you that the forum is full – in this case, work to get some of the threads listed here finished and closed, by finishing the work that was decided upon in a thread and hollering for thread closure.

General behaviour (of everyone)

Naturally, the standard rules apply here as well. Remember, the topic is about the wiki, so you should always explain how your proposal benefits the wiki and/or page proper, ideally providing data in favour of your stance. It isn’t about policy – keep policy discussions to Wiki Talk.

Record-keeping

Even before thread completion, a neutral summary for new incoming people in the OP is recommended but not required. And if the thread decided on action, do not hesitate at hollering for getting it pinned above the thread.

When a rename is successful, put the reasons on Renamed Tropes and Renamed Tropes. In all repairs, please add links to the thread to the discussion pages of the involved tropes.

edited 25th Feb '13 1:54:30 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I would add where to go when an issue doesn't fit TRS - for instance, when it's sufficient to handle things within the discussion page.

I figure that such a section would be like this:

Please do not make Trope Repair Shop threads for the following:

• Adding examples or removing misuse from the page - if anything, you can post about it in the discussion page. Also, "I don't know the work" isn't a reason to hesitate - if an example doesn't seem to fit the description from reading alone, it should be removed, ideally to the discussion page with an edit reason.
• Clean up - it's likely that there is a dedicated thread listed here. And you can create a thread in Special Efforts for other cleanup-only things.
• Figuring out details about the trope definition - these usually run in Trope Talk.
• Bringing up the same issue over and over. We don't like people gaming the TRS system to get a result they want.
• Complaining about pages/policy/names.
• It is not necessary to announce minor clean-up projects, except if there is already a thread in Special Efforts.
• If the proposed change is minor nitpicking, it's probably pointless to start a TRS thread - it will either quickly turn into "get on with it" or will be tossed out after lengthy discussion that leads nowhere.

Anything I missed?

Added it.

edited 31st Dec '12 10:21:24 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Bump to get opinions on

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Looks pretty good to me. You may or may not want to mention two things:

• It is not neccesary to announce minor clean-up projects, except if there is already a thread in Special Efforts.
• If the proposed change is minor nitpicking, it's probably pointless to start a TRS thread - it will either quickly turn into "get on with it" or will be tossed out after lengthy discussion that leads nowhere.

Added that item. Anybody opposed to adding the section to the OP and replacing the current TRS sticky with this one?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Looks good.

Check out my fanfiction!

Anyone else?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

It's alright, but a mod meeting is coming up and I want to gather all related material that needs instating in TRS (I'm hoping for more). So, I'll bring it up in the meeting and then instate any changes.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Will this thread be up for consideration as a possible replacement for the current sticky?

edited 4th Jan '13 2:28:18 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

The references to Special Efforts need to be edited to reflect the recent split.

What cleanup cases aren't major enough for TRS but are major enough for the Short Term forum (as opposed to simply doing them or using the discussion page) and don't have their own Long Term thread?

edited 8th Feb '13 12:58:55 PM by MorganWick

Did the edit, although I am not sure if there is a point to it as lu127 never came back here.

The other question ... honestly not sure.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'd call it a place where you go when you need to call in reinforcements.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Bumping this. What was the outcome of the moderator discussion?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Bumping again. Please, please reply!

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Aside from some possible tweaks to the writeup (nothing concrete right now, I'd have to sit down and look at it closer) it looks like a good start.

It looks good for the most part. My suggestions:

• "The page needs help in any other fashion, and the issue doesn’t have its own venue as under “first off” out above" is an awkward wording. I figured out what you meant, but it took a while. Please reword it.

• You could change "First off" to have a sub-heading and you could explicitly list the Grand and Unified Appearance Trope Clean-Up (not mentioned in your write-up) and YKTTW Crash Rescue Thread (is mentioned elsewhere). Possibly the Badass tropes cleanup thread, too.

• Something about needing to give reasons in the OP or it will be locked by mods. I can't recall the exact requirements, but this intro should list them.

• I'd make the suggestion for "summarize the thread and progress in the OP" stronger and more detailed. Getting people in the habit of doing that would make it so much easier to join a thread in the middle without archive-binging.

edited 25th Feb '13 8:06:38 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Updated this for the forum split and the new post-pinning function. About Arcades Sabboth's concerns:

1. Rewrote it. Better?
2. Didn't do it - the link to the directory is enough, otherwise we would get a list of all these threads ever.
3. Did add some of it.
4. Hmm - might merit more discussion.

Any more comments? Especially on the proposed move of this topic to TRS?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

1-2. Looks better! That is much clearer, just linking to the directory. That actually makes my second suggestion redundant.

3. I can't find what you added.

5. I don't think it makes sense to move this to the TRS until it's actually finished.

edited 25th Feb '13 2:33:11 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

I added it to the "ambiguous name" section there - this thread title is the most frequent victim of "insufficient reason".

Also, (so to keep it from getting ninja-forgotten) do we move this to TRS?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Ah I see, you are asking about pinning it in TRS now, so it doesn't keep falling to the bottom of the forum here?

That makes some sense.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

I remember the original headline for the "state your case or it'll be locked" rule cited Everything You Wanted To Know About Changing Names.

Yes, that page says too that you need arguments in favour of your suggestion. I linked that in the OP too.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Anyone else, so that we can decide this? I really want to bring this into TRS.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman