The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

Still think dumping it is the best approach.

I haven't voted already, because Nocturna brought up an interesting argument in @161, as well as @167 that I want to test here.

With example-cutting restored to the option I switched my vote to keep it as an exampleless visual device.

edited 14th Dec '12 11:55:53 AM by ArcadesSabboth

I don't think it's salvageable. The visual convention could start fresh with YKTTW, but this is ingrained into people's heads as a "free for all ZCE trope", so it seems more profitable if it goes away.

edited 14th Dec '12 11:59:28 AM by lu127

The page itself does not have ATM a lot of Zero Context Examples - the wicks I didn't check.

I definitely think it needs a rename if the votes go toward the "keep and redefine" option.

I'd want to cut and disallow all examples on work pages, too.

If we're going to rename and redefine and cut examples, then what's the point of keeping it? We won't have the current name, definition or examples. It'll be something completely new. So why not just cut, and take the new whatever to YKTTW?

I think some people are just freaked out by the idea of cutting something, and want to avoid that even when it stops making sense.

If we're keeping it strictly as a visual convention, why do we need to cut examples? None of them are problematic under that definition.

Their use is trivia, not a trope. It's meaningless and still ZCE.

My understanding was that the "define as visual convention" option meant keeping the same name.

The problem with that is that Shiny Midnight Black doesn't actually describe the highlighting thing at all; it's a perfect description of deeply (almost lustrously) black hair, but that's it.

I don't know if it's a trope, but it's clearly not Trivia.

All examples of a trope are notable. If it's a trope, we should list examples for it. The only exceptions should be the ones that are absurdly widespread, like Climax and The Good Guys Win.

And if it's not a trope, why should we keep the page? It's not as if "Shiny Midnight Black" is a term we need a definition for, like Kuudere.

edited 14th Dec '12 7:30:10 PM by troacctid

I've moved to the "cut everything, start the visual thing over in YKTTW with new name" camp.

Ok, Xtifr's post has convinced me - changing vote back to "cut".

In favor of either converting Shiny Midnight Black to being about the visual contrast issue or making that trope. Really dark black hair isn't a trope though. Did we ever get around to "character has [specific characteristic] fetish" trope so we could stick most of the in work references to that sort of thing?

Hrrrr, Elegant Gothic Lolita is more a matter of style than characterization, so there's not much we can do other than describing the look. Any ZCE fleshing volunteers?

I'll see what I can do. I'm guessing most of it's usage on the wiki are also zero context examples.

Good. Now, Power Blonde....is there anything salvageable there? It feels less like a trope and more like an arbitrary assortment of characteristics.

With 138 wicks and 71 inbounds, it certainly isn't something big to loss.

I thought it was supposed to be about a blonde character in a leadership role. Not sure that's a trope though.

The Shiny Midnight Black crowner has been up for three days now, and it looks like it's trending pretty clearly towards cutting it entirely.

I think we're getting near the point of calling the crowner, if not there already.

(Also, perhaps remove Hair of Gold from the OP, as it's been resolved?)

edited 17th Dec '12 10:32:51 AM by Nohbody

Power Blonde makes me thoughtful largely, I think, because it starts out by defining what it's not: A blonde who isn't evil."

Then it goes on to say basically: "A blonde who is in a position of power or leadership." Like most of the other hair color tropes, that has become "any character who is both blonde and in a position of power or leadership." I don't know how many examples would still be good if it was changed to fall in line with the other hair color and eye color tropes: "Blonde hair is used to indicate or emphasize to the reader that the woman is powerful/the leader."

I'm not sure blonde hair = strong, powerful woman is a trope. It seems more like an arbitrary connection between the appearance and the characteristic.

^^ Especially since there isn't, AFAIK, any implications regarding blonde other than the ones involving intelligence (or, specifically, apparent lack thereof). Blonde hair isn't a "power color" or anything like that, though I'll grant you that the whole "power [blah]" thing in regards to personal appearance has always left me a little puzzled, as a fashion-deficient guy.

edited 17th Dec '12 10:45:19 AM by Nohbody