Males of Games

I don't buy that it is every humans nature. Not every single person works that way. Some people genuinely do not like to socialize at all, some people seem to lack fear entirely. We shouldn't use it as an excuse to distrust people.

edited 2nd Dec '12 8:26:54 PM by Wildcard

Where did I say its an excuse to distrust people? I said that there is a part in us that in our core will distrust people because its a defense mechanism from our early days.

We have many systems in our body that defy all logic but still affect us because they were meant for survival.

And I'll bet you a lot of those people who are unsocial feel a part of them wish they were able to be so. Its a road I've gone down lots of time and still do.

edited 2nd Dec '12 8:28:22 PM by Thorn14

You a psychologist, Thorn?

These things can be beaten. For one, children raised in a multiethnic environment aren't liable to display much prejudice conscious or unconscious in the future. Which is one of the reasons it's so important to show diversity in media.

Saying it's there and there's nothing we can do about it is stupid. Perfection is overrated, but we shouldn't just lie back and accept that deep down we want to alienate other people.

I took a college course! And watch Discovery Channel!

I advocate understanding, not trying to smash our heads against a wall psychologically speaking.

If we can understand WHY we have these ugly thoughts, than we can move toward trying to better ourselves.

I think it makes more sense than just going "NO BAD SUBCONSCIOUS. BAD BAD."

I like to think of myself as pretty tolerant. I have several friends of different races at school, and female and gay ones. I've always advocated tolerance and understanding.

But if getting slightly nervous subconsciously when a Scary Black Man approaches me is Racist, then hand me my white robe because I'm a racist I guess.

edited 2nd Dec '12 8:44:03 PM by Thorn14

Is every one of your arguments based on mischaracterization?

Because literally nobody is arguing for what you're claiming they're arguing for.

edited 2nd Dec '12 8:45:20 PM by JotunofBoredom

I have no idea what that meant.

But alright, whatever, I'm clearly wrong about everything.

I simply wanted to make a point that I believe we should understand the ugly parts about ourselves and improve ourselves as a society by doing so, instead of trying to pretend they dont exist.

edited 2nd Dec '12 8:47:22 PM by Thorn14

Yup.

@Thorn: Who's pretending they don't exist? We keep listing off examples of prejudice in the media and saying how we should move beyond them.

And we never once go "Huh I wonder why we act like that, lets try to find some positive examples to gain from this."

Instead we just scream that the industry is bad and sexist and wrong, and accomplish nothing.

Eh no. Were listing the bad examples to discuss what not to do. Saying "Hey this game has a sexism against women. Let's introduce more woman characters into the media and try to make this one different. Hopefully less sexist."

Yeah. There's been TONS of discussion about the positive and negative portrayals of men and women across both threads.

We don't see nearly as much positive examples to add than we say how much everything sucks.

When you constantly say "Don't do this" you end up going "Well what CAN we do?!" "Well dont do that!"

Well outside the tropes forum as well I mean of course.

edited 2nd Dec '12 8:54:21 PM by Thorn14

@Thorn: Lots of different opinions on how to fix this Thorn. Naturally not everybody is going to agree with a solution.

So you're yelling at us for what other people are doing...?

This movement is larger than TV Tropes. Never once have I ever addressed anyone personally.

Well of course were not going to see mostly positive examples. The whole thing is about what we can do to fix it the gaming industry. Not talking about when it does right.

When they do talk about what it is doing right in this context it is mostly "They are doing it right, why can't more people doing it like them."

Yes, it does. Because all african-american women don't look alike. Some of them don't even look visibly "black".

Except you're not even trying to fight it. So you ARE ruled by it.

You're confusing accepting differences and enforcing/excluding differences. You say "I will never find an african-american woman attractive". That's not accepting a difference, it's excluding one.

So apparently, you can control who you find attractive, but not hiccups? Both are psychological impulses.

Way to miss the point of the game.

Even after they accepted that a Shadow was part of them, they then fought to overcome it. Chie stopped making herself protect Yukiko. Yukiko stopped secretly resenting her family business. Kanji stopped hating women to cover up his sexuality. Etcetera, etcera.

You just did the exact OPPOSITE of what the point of the game was and tried to make it sound clever.

edited 2nd Dec '12 9:11:51 PM by KingZeal

And way to miss my entire point.

They overcame it BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTOOD IT. When they DENIED that part of them, the shadow fucking flipped out. They got their personas because they accepted it was a part of themselves and then proceeded to work toward improving themselves after realizing those parts of themselves.

But I'm racist now so my opinion is invalid now because I don't find african americans attractive though.

edited 2nd Dec '12 9:17:57 PM by Thorn14

So what are feminists not accepting now?

Nobody said they never had intolerance. Were saying we did or are trying to overcome it. What King Zeal is saying is your not trying too and getting defensive about the implication that you should.

My whole point is we should over come it by understanding it! I just say we should accept we have these ugly parts to us, and not be overcome by them.

Very rarely do I see actual positive examples brought up.

edited 2nd Dec '12 9:21:13 PM by Thorn14

Well, saying "I will never find a member of this race attractive" does rather imply racism. You can't exactly get mad if you come right out and say it.

We've lost complete track of what the term racist means now apparently.

I don't find black women physically attractive, that means I hate them now? Or discriminate against them somehow?

edited 2nd Dec '12 9:23:59 PM by Thorn14

Racism has never meant hatred. Racism is merely not seeing all races as equal.

Seeing one race as "Lesser" or "Inferior".

x4 What does that have to do with acceptance?

Isn't the problem the bad representation of women, meaning the acceptance part is acknowledging this bad representation and why it happens?

Wouldn't pointing out positive examples be part of the fixing phase of the process because it shows something we should aim for?

edited 2nd Dec '12 9:25:38 PM by JotunofBoredom