Cinematic Gaming

Saying gameplay is irrelevant to that is majorly missing the point.

What did you think you were doing when navigating through those vast areas? Do you honestly think watching that, but abridged and edited, would really have given you the same feeling for how barren the land was as actually playing through it, completely uncut?

edited 1st Dec '12 11:41:00 AM by JotunofBoredom

Umbran Climax◊

When did I say gameplay was irrelevant? On the contrary, I said it was important, just not the most important or remarkable thing in the game.

I'll repeat myself: I'm not using the assumption that cinematic = lots of cutscenes.

edited 1st Dec '12 11:57:04 AM by HopelessDaydreamer

Umbran Climax◊

Exactly.

It is important, but not the biggest thing. What's the problem with that? I think that if you want to make a truly remarkable game you need to give a good amount of attention to everything. I certainly agree that a good gameplay is important, after all that's what makes a game important. If you were to just watch all that empty land, it wouldn't be a game.

I never said gameplay was irrelevant. Never. I said it wasn't as relevant as the rest. It was important as a part of the bigger picture, but not on it's own. Now, while it's true that the cinematics, and I'm using the same interpretation I explained earlier, cannot shine on its own either, that's more of an aspect of videogames. You can't make not even an average game without a good enough gameplay, but you can make a good game with a terrible story, or bad graphics, or a bad setting, as long as the gameplay is good enough to overcome those issues.

The thing about SOTC and ICO is that in their case the rest of the game can completely outshine the gameplay. It's still there, it's not actually bad, and it still plays an important part, but the other aspects are more impacting notable.

I don't think it's the same thing with Devil May Cry*

, for instance. In those games the gameplay is the most important thing by far and almost on its own. Who plays those games for the story, or even for the graphics?

Did I make myself clear enough now?

edited 1st Dec '12 12:15:48 PM by HopelessDaydreamer

I'm not saying you're asking for cutscenes.

I'm saying removing or changing the gameplay would have a huge impact on the feelings it inspires.

If you changed Amnesia so that you could fight back against enemies, the game would influence completely separate feelings BECAUSE of a change in gameplay.

Umbran Climax◊

Cut Scenes are a tool to show parts of the story chiefly for exposition or actions of others outside of the players control. They should stick mostly too that.

They have uses in portraying events or items that are difficult or impossible to portray with gameplay. Or they can be used as instructional material such as how use certain mechanics.

Cut scenes in general are a very useful story telling tool. But if the game is more cutscene then interactive story that kind of defeats the purpose of a lot of games in general.

If you want people to watch a character and their story make a video. If you want people to be a character and experience the characters story make a video game.

You can combine both but actual gameplay should trump cut scene. Cut scenes get boring after a while.

Who watches the watchmen?

I'll just leave this here:

How to do it wrong = Asura's Wrath. For being: Short lived game depth, long winded scenes and the ONLY purpose of the game is make sure the main character doesn't screw up. You don't GET to decide anymore else.

How to do it right = Deus Ex Human Revolution. For being: Leading, roam-emphasized, plot and progression twisted by the player's actions as player controls the main character.

What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...

How Asuras Wrath actually does do it right: It's Stylized, with the Narrative of an Interactive anime or Japanese TV Drama, with a story that spans over thousands of years that comes right out of the biggest mythological epics of ancient past, incredibly over the top insane imagery and action and truly heartfelt moments that make Asura as a character truly likable as a male protagonist, a loving father, and a god slaying badass at the same time, who makes the true ultimate sacrifice all for one person. It also uses subtle cues amongst all the action that keep you on your feet, while cheering for Asura as he takes down his former allies, and truly feel the emotions presented throughout the story. It was never meant to be about choosing how your decisions affects things, it's about the experience, and the journey you follow alongside Asura.

Most of Atlus's RP Gs tend to do the emotional, experience, and journey part very well, too, with Persona3 and it's themes of life and death, and Persona4's themes of finding the truth and Answers.

edited 1st Dec '12 5:00:28 PM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear

Asura's Wrath did it wrong because it could have been an anime and nothing would have been lost. It didn't properly utilize the medium it was in. It had elements that were really good, and it was a good experience, but it was a poor game.

Experiences and Games are not always seperate.

Shadow Of The Colossus, Ico, Okami, El Shaddai and Journey are all games, yet are meant to be true experience because of their unique feeling, not trying to be Traditional games at all, along with their original concepts and emotional moments.

The Metal Gear Solid games do it too.

Well, for Asuras Wrath, look at this essay in particular in why I think it IS a good example of a Cinematic game done right, just like all the examples listed, just that it does it differently from them, yet in a unique way all the same.

edited 1st Dec '12 5:31:40 PM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear

Well, I disagree. I gain something from playing Shadow of the Colossus. I don'e even see why you listed Okami. Okami isn't much different from Zelda, and that isn't overly cinematic.

Asura's Wrath could have been just an anime, and nothing of value would have been lost. At all. The combat feels like padding between cutscenes. All of the significant achievements are done for you by the cutscenes. Hell, some of the DLC are literally anime episodes with button prompts pasted over it. I enjoyed Asura's Wrath. I thought it was a fun story. That was its only real success, though. I get the same thing watching the game, cutscene to QTE to cutscene as I do playing it.

Hell, some of the DLC are literally anime episodes with button prompts pasted over it.

Which is why I like it so much.

Watch Symphogear

No. That is terrible. That is terrible and it should stay a relic of the past.

When it's completely crazy, no, it's not terrible.

Watch Symphogear

When I want to watch anime, I watch anime. I don't play games to watch anime. Asura's Wrath would have been better off as an anime.

Except they didn't want it to be an anime, they already have to do that with Dot Hack anyhow and wanted to make it a game that completely uses an anime format, because its never been done in games before.

I see nothing wrong with trying something unique, and it works beautifully.

Watch Symphogear

Yeah, count me in the crowd that thinks Asura's Wrath was exactly the wrong way to do cinematic gaming. Trying the demo made me feel like I was watching a slightly interactive trailer, and that's just no good.

I'll say it again: a game can be good (and get good reception and/or sales) by gameplay ALONE...other media cannot do the same thing...we got several few of the most successful games with no story and character whatsoever (or in extreme minimum)...try do that with with movies, anime, or such!

Also: if I want to watch anime or movie or read book, I'll go do that instead of trying to play game that give that experience...I play games to play...

edited 1st Dec '12 7:37:47 PM by onyhow

Give me cute or give me...something?

Paintings!

Hah, I win.

Umbran Climax◊

Technically, throughout history most paintings (and sculptures, etc) have had great critical reception but don't sell very many copies.

^^ OH NO! /me chase Jotunof around

Then again, you can say music too, but really...

edited 1st Dec '12 7:41:04 PM by onyhow

Give me cute or give me...something?

When I want to listen to some sweet grooves, I go play some video games.

Donate money to Skullgirls, get a sweet poster.

They're never separate. The tendency to try and separate them is as annoying as the tendency to separate feeling from literally anything, or to say that something is charming without explaining how or why.

Success is less a measure of sales and more a measure of profit.

Atlus games don't need to sell millions to be successful because they have the tendency to create high quality products with relatively low budgets. But if a numbered Final Fantasy sold the same as Persona 3, it would be a total disaster because the production values in those games are through the roof.

The Mona Lisa is worth hella a lot despite only being a single painting of some lady.

Aww yeah:

edited 1st Dec '12 8:17:22 PM by JotunofBoredom

Umbran Climax◊

I know, I was joking. Apples to oranges and all that.

Okay, THIS is what I'm talking about.

This is a hunting game

Is there no franchise COD can't ruin. Seriously, this is the future of gaming...

There was a time when this was a legit and fun hunting simulator.

edited 4th Dec '12 9:39:41 AM by Thorn14