Does Wonder Woman deserve her reputation?

Sometimes it feels like we're meant to think she's a better character than she actually is. DC tries to place her on par with Batman and Superman, but most people can tell you a lot more about those two than they can about Wonder Woman. I've heard (largely from this site) that she's been pretty inconsistently written since the eighties, she has few, if any interesting rogues, and any time a writer tries to build up her supporting cast, the next writer just ignores them. Someone else will have to confirm this, but I've also heard that The Flash and Green Lantern's books sell better than hers does.

So, does Wonder Woman truly deserve her place in DC's "Trinity", or does she just coast along on her reputation as the world's first major independent super heroine?

To clarify, I'm not accusing her of being a bad character. I don't have any particular opinion on her because I haven't read any of her comics, but for the reasons I gave, I sometimes wonder if she should get the hype she does.

I must say, I do feel sometimes that's she's kind of shoe-horned into the "Big 3." She's very recognizable to the public because of the 70's TV series and because she continually appears prominently in DC's advertising. I've met a number of people who just love her character to death, but for me she just seems to lack a certain resonance.

It seems to me that the problem lies more with the creative teams and the execs that handle her rather than any failure on the part of the character. The last time they tried to bring her to a different medium they gave us the Wonder Woman pilot which was... underwhelming.

My impression has been that Wonder Woman's role as part of the DC's big three has been more about her being their major longstanding female superhero and how long she's been around more than anything else. She never really seems to carry the same clout as Superman or Batman and it somehow seems like she comes up short when placed in direct comparison to the other two, sexist as it may sound. Which may be the reason why nobody ever really poses a serious question about whether she deserves to be held up as the equal to Superman and Batman - who can ask such a question without sounding like they have a thing against women?

What's curious is that when you look at the flip side of things at Marvel's Big Three of Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor, you'd think offhand that none of them would work as part of their "trinity", what with Iron Man having a lot of seemingly interchangeable, armor-based, and/or less memorable villains, him and Thor not being among their A-listers for years, and Cap not being present for the first issue of The Avengers, but there's something about the way they're shown in the comics, especially when they're together or placed next to other superheroes. Something that makes all three of them feel like all three actually deserve to be part of Marvel's Big Three, even above other more popular heroes like Spider-Man, Hulk, and Wolverine.

Why this is I don't know, but I think it's interesting to look at the comparison all the same.

edited 8th Nov '12 1:12:38 AM by SpaceJawa

I'd say it's mostly it's harder to connect personally with her than with Batman or Superman. Clark was raised as one of us, and Bruce still symbolizes the darker aspects of the human psyche, but Diana is pretty much the 'alien' one of the three. She comes from a culture that doesn't exist, brought under circumstances none of us can relate to that much, not even females, since we all come from mixed-gender societies not under direct protection of the Greek gods.

That doesn't make her a bad character at all, just one the average reader can't connect to personally in the same level as the other two.

I only know Wonder Woman from JLU and the New 52 both of which I really love (though I still have to catch up on JLU post season 2). She's awesome in both and I think she's definitely deserving of her reputation from those two portrayals.

Hey, I'm sure the writers are painfully aware of this very question, and that they've been trying as hard as they could to answer it. Your Mileage May Vary on how well their attempts are working, but New 52 at least seems to be succeeding in answering that question!

"I've heard (largely from this site) that she's been pretty inconsistently written since the eighties,"

Yes.

"she has few, if any interesting rogues,"

Yes.

"and any time a writer tries to build up her supporting cast, the next writer just ignores them."

Oh boy, yes.

Dr. Marsden's original contract stated that DC must always have a Wonder Woman comic in print or they lose the rights to the character. Unfortunately, this means a lot of slapdash reboots. The character's rarely gelled—and when she does, she gets completely rebooted anyway.

Also: the 70s TV show was probably the height of the character's popularity. It is pretty cool, in a corny 70s way. The theme song is awesome. And Linda Carter looked the part.

Why, oh why, did they not try to get Lucy Lawless for the new pilot? Wonder Woman is an Amazon, people! That means she should be tall and at least a bit muscular. (Busty too, of course.) Wonder Woman should look physically capable of tossing thugs around. Not like that skinny woman they cast.

As opposed to the way people draw her?

As opposed to the skinny lady they had in the recent failed live-action pilot.

Yes, I know that, but she's drawn as a skinny lady in the comics.

Presumably Lucy Lawless was too old.

The fascist overtones of her character in that pilot really didn't help. The blatant murder of a security guard didn't help and ultimately made it feel like an attempt at Black-and-Grey Morality back fired with Wonder Woman coming across as the black.

Oh yeah the Pilot was five kinds of terrible and we actually had a brief discussion about it on the Avengers movie discussion page. Basically they tried to turn her into Jack Bauer and forgot that Jack Bauer is only a hero because the people he fights are orders of magnitude worse than he is. Torturing someone and murdering meatheads and one unlucky security guard so you can bring down one smexy British drug dealer doesn't make you a hero it makes you a psychotic nut who thankfully hasn't blown up an orphanage yet.

so basically the show was repurposed into Arrow.

Oh it was much worse. Arrow doesn't care much about killing security guards but Wondy actually went out of her way to crush some body builders with shipping containers and drive a pipe through a skinny mall cops throat. Say what you want about Oliver's actions in Arrow but he can't bench press a bus or casually block bullets and he doesn't gleefully torture someone while a magical rope capable of forcing someone to answer questions honestly sits on his belt. Oh also Ollie gets called out on his actions constantly while Wonder Woman only did once during the episode and it was by a slimy Senator who was being bribed by the episodes Villain and we were clearly supposed to disagree with him even though every line of dialogue that came out of his mouth was 100% right. Arrow may have a few problems with Moral dissonance but Wonder Woman 2011 masturbated furiously at pictures of that trope showering.

Lucy Lawless may be older but she is not that old. She is not particularly busty or toned but some workouts and enhancement similar to the Xena costume could help. Besides height, few women will be able to keep that costume on in live action(they can tape it on I guess) so I can see why casting would be difficult.

I would probably cast Wesna Busic. She's tall, muscular, brunette and somewhat busty though casting a German as Wonder Woman would be ironic. Maybe cast Wesna as the baroness, or maybe a figure from a Germanic folklore/fairytale/mythology(not Norse though, that's overused), because she is worth using but maybe I'd see if April Hunter or Hailey Hatred could not play Wonder Woman first. They would need Hair dye obviously but both are fairly large athletes. Know any Greek or Italian performers that are Wonder Woman sized or close to it?

I would draw from the comics obviously, but I think it would be more like The Dark Knight or Blade Trilogies and largely do its own thing or draw from other media appearances(in this case, The Batman to Blade's Spider-man The Animated Series).

Lucy Lawless has the body type, but her face isn't exactly the one I'd assign to a live action Diana.

I always liked Evangeline Lilly for the part. Just send her to the gym, up her protein and wham, Wonder Woman.

Just as a note, the stipulation that DC print at least 4 Wonder Woman comics a year or lose the publishing rights to the character is no longer in force; they finally bought the character outright from Marston's estate in, I believe, the late 80's.

Interestingly, the Wonder Woman mini-series that came out between the end of her original series and the beginning of George Perez/ William Messner-Loebs reboot in '86 was the direct result of the above contract agreement. It was written by Kurt Busiek and drawn by Trina Robbins and was largely just them having fun with the character until the new series was ready.

I haven't really read any Wonder Woman comics aside from a little of the really early Marston stuff, because I don't have a lot of spare cash and there are other books I'd rather get. That said, I really enjoyed Wonder Woman in the DCAU. She's just never been one of those characters that could wow me like Batman or Iron Man. Part of this is due to the fact that the only villains of hers I can name are the Cheetah and... Zeus? Are the Greek gods villains? I don't know. See what I mean? In my opinion her spot should be filled by Hal Jordan. Sure, it's not exactly diverse, but he always seemed like a way bigger deal to the DC Universe as a whole.

Ares is a Wonder Woman villain, but most other Greek gods tend to be either helpful or non interfering to her.

Edit: Pre-DCNU, that is. Haven't read the new reboot yet.

edited 15th Nov '12 7:38:25 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

One of her best villains is a really creepy little twist named Dr.Psycho, this ridiculously creepy looking genius psychic who preyed on the minds of young women (at least in his first story). He's probably her oldest recurring villain.

The rogues gallery thing? I do not think Dr. Psycho is a bad villain, I just do not see him as a reoccurring Wonder Woman threat, mainly because he cannot directly threaten her. At least not the post crisis versions of the characters. I might use the silver age Dr. Psycho though.

Maybe I would just go with Adrianne Palicki anyway. And, I guess it would start with 1930s wartime tails, in a kind of mini series.

I take back Wesna playing the baroness. I would give that role to a smaller, less athletic woman like, and have her wear a suit of powered armor. Wesna would play a Nix, who was accidentally summoned by Nazis. She would drown people and eat them, then prove to be a master at stealth and deception. Also, she would have an army of pet dragons.(Dr. Psycho would be in his saboteur role)

Then we would move onto her modern era goodwill ambassador thing. Her first trial would be a troll played by Hailey who was stealing German babies and goats then proceeded to rampage through the country when they tried to stop her from having her way. She would be the first and most reoccurring of an entire subterranean trouble making troll civilization.

The baroness would have reformed in her old age, but Ares, played by Adam Copeland, and his two demigod children Silver Swan and Duke of Deception, would take up the slack. The Nix would resurface to cause mayhem and not having learned their lesson, some Nazi remnants would accidentally call forth a draugr Wonder Woman would have to put down. It would come in the shape of the baroness's former husband or maybe of a civilian victim, just to make it more funny/tragic.

April Hunter would play the leader a rogue group of wood nymphs out to destroy modern civilization teetering between punishing it for the crimes of accelerated climate change, deforestation and DC comics or simply for its own good. In particular she would be dead set on annihilating the human populations of Western Europe and North Africa to make room for more grass.

So, I guess war era Steve Trevor would end up as the husband to the baroness after she reformed, then Wonder Woman would eventually get her own boyfriend, Nemesis, in the modern age.

edited 27th Aug '13 2:21:25 PM by Cider