God creating life and then taking a break

right, this does not follow. Perfection may take many different many forms depending on the natures of the individuals. If anything, it's imperfection which reduces the possibility of expression of the individual talents and makes everybody similar.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

@Kostya: That's a good supposition, but there is the sense at least that he seems willing to sacrifice innocent individuals along the way.

Perfection is often paradoxical*

, but God does that all the time.

It is a eldritch being from beyond space and time with powers outside of our ability to comprehend and knowledge that could shatter us like soap bubbles before a hurricane.

Fascinating.

An exceptional being is exceptional because there are less exceptional things to compare it to. It can be defined by the things it excels at. This is only meaningful if everything excels at different things.

A perfect being does everything perfectly. A perfect being is always right. Perfection smooths out any variance in abilities and knowledge and perspective that allow individuality to manifest in a meaningful context.

My point is that saying the goal of all humanity is to become "perfect" sounds like a noble goal, but in reality would be the death of individuality. If that was the price of the fall, it was worth it.

edited 25th Nov '12 12:10:32 PM by Elfive

I don't see why this should be the case. A perfect toaster does not sing perfect yodels; a perfect toaster makes perfect toast.

A perfect human would have all of their natural talents and inclinations brought to the highest possible level of development. If you could take two different people and somehow bring them to perfection, they would become extremely different — far more than they used to be when they respective, and different, talents were underdeveloped.

edited 25th Nov '12 12:16:26 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

A toaster does one thing. It toasts bread. A perfect toaster is logical. A runner doesn't just run. He might also play the flute. If he was perfect he would play the flute perfectly too? Or is he just content to be a perfect runner? What does that even mean?

Perfection makes sense as a mathematical concept, but living things are just too complex. The word loses all meaning until it just ends up a vague undefined label for this unattainable theoretical ideal.

Would two perfect toasters make the same perfect toast?

Or would there be subtle differences in the toast? Both sublime and perfect in different ways?

Or does that preclude their perfection, by being two ways..

Again, you say "perfect toast" do you man the platonic ideal of toast, from which all pieces of toast are an imperfect facsimile, or just the best toast you can imagine? What if someone else would define the best toast differently?

What if someone else doesn't like toast? wouldn't perfect toast for them be non-existent toast?

A human being does many things, sure; but he or she does not have to do all of them. We all have different talents and interests — and we also have different vocations, if you can forgive me the term. This is a feature, not a bug.

Perhaps your runner likes to play the flute, but is not terribly interested in sculpture — it's just not his thing. That would not change. Not being interested in sculpture is not a flaw, just like not being able to bench-press ten tons is not a flaw — not if one is not meant to be a sculptor or some sort of incredibly powerful strongman.

A hypothetical society of perfect humans would not be a society of cookie-cutter Physical Gods, it would be a society in which every one has brought their personal development to its ideal level. And they would be all different, much in the same sense in which a perfect oak is different from a perfect orange tree. There is not one single perfect painting, or one single perfect tree, or one single perfect model of person: any painting, tree, or person should ideally be allowed to achieve its full potential, without betraying the very premise of their being.

I dunno. But I like your second possibility, so I'm going with it

edited 25th Nov '12 12:38:13 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

You raise an excellent point.

Perfection would be difficult. People think differently, after all.

A song that brings one person to tears could elect mere smug contempt in others.

So more of a society of Odd Job Gods?

I AM THE GOD OF ALL CAPS STATEMENTS OVER INTERNET FORUMS THAT IS DISCOURAGED DUE TO BEING PERCEIVED AS YELLING!

Perfection is fluid, not static.

Stasis is a flaw.

What about perfect stasis?

What about perfect flaws? Perfect boredom?

If something is perfect and the same, eventually people will get used to it and take it for granted. And grow bored.

People do that all the time.

This thread seems to have perfectly run it's course.

If we're at the point of discussing our various fictional implementations of God, then I'd say we're probably done and the side conversation should move to Writer's Block. Thoughts?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

A perfect solution.