I support the proposal in post 19.
Meanwhile, I have edited Baleful Polymorph so that Taken for Granite and Unwilling Roboticisation are no longer subtropes. This is my response to posts 24 and 25. Back when I removed the animal rule (see post 11), I reasoned that statues and robots are not animals, so I added them as subtropes. I now understand that a human statue or robotic human still has human form, so there is no polymorph.
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Plus, being turned to stone is often a much more explicit analogue for actual death.
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I whole-heartedly support the suggestion in post no. 19.
Turning someone into a non-harmless animals, like a bear, is still 'baleful' considering that person doesn't want to be transformed and can't change back. There are many fairy tales where someone (usually a prince or princess) gets transformed into a bear, wolf, monster etc. (i.e. creatures that are not "harmless") by some evil stepmother, witch etc. ("Beauty and the Beast" is an example, to start with.) The important thing is that it's a way to neutralize someone and get him/her out of the way — a permanent animal transformation is an exclusion from human society. So the name "Baleful Polymorph" covers that in my book.
The current description focuses on roleplaying games and transformations 'in combat'. If we follow post no. 19 (which I hope), then I suppose the description would have to become a little more general.
Let's just say and leave it at that.
No, the other one.
I think 19 seems reasonable. I don't think there's much of a point in having trope with many small conditions that describe a particular way it happens while ignoring the purpose of why the trope is used in the first place.
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World's Toughest Milkman
Ok, looking at it, I think a quick fix might be to change "useless in combat" to "unable to pursue their goals" in the first paragraph. Being turned into a bear might not make you useless in combat, but it will also certainly make it impossible for you to marry the princess or address the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
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I support post 19 too. To me this trope should be about turning somebody into something they don't want to be, against their will, as a weapon or punishment or to get them out of the way. There are Greek myths of gods turning people into lions or hawks as punishments, and it wasn't depicted as a fun/happy thing just because lions can still kill people and hawks can still fly.
I also support removing the animal requirement. Being turned into a potted petunia or a chair may overlap with And I Must Scream or just be fatal, but it's still "ZAP! You're now a bowling pin, HAH!"
Nevermind, the example I wanted to add was already there.
edited 3rd Feb '13 11:50:23 AM by ArcadesSabboth
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If 19 is a redefinition, I support it. We really need sometimes to turn subtropes into supertropes if the distinctions are arbitrary.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Or there are not sister tropes under said supertrope.
That said, should Long Term Projects have a thread for Missing Supertrope Syndrome, or is that something that should continue to get identified and fixed in TRS?
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Guess it could be a good idea, although YKTTW and TRS would still be the venues for creating or redefining tropes.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The reason I'm not sure is that unlike other such problems, this is one that isn't always immediately obvious just by looking at a problem page. You can tell quickly if something mislauchned from lack of YKTTW or is an Appearance Trope. It sometimes takes wick checks and discussion to identify Missing Supertrope Syndrome as the source of a problem.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
World's Toughest Milkman
The animal requirement is already a done deal, and implemented. Post 31 is a suggestion for implementing the idea in post 19 (in case I wasn't clear enough). I think we've clearly reached the point where post 19 is in. If we implement post 31, we may be able to call this done.
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Sounds good to me.
World's Toughest Milkman
Ok, I went ahead and made that change. Does this mean we're done?
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Don't see why not.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Hi
Ready to lock?
Yes.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Hi
Locking.
If we get a couple more posts in support of post 19, and no further opposition, that might be good enough (especially if we can get a mod to approve). If we just leave this idle, though, it's just going to sit around until some mod gets tired of it and clocks it. Some sort of resolution so we can clear the TRS slot sooner, rather than later, would be good.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.