General Disney Princess Discussion

All this talking about Aurora is making me feel like I'm about to fall asleep at the keyboard. x_x

Bump with something interesting I found. How about black and silver for Aurora? ;)

You know they should a human based movie based in Africa where there is an African princess. Also there maybe could be a movie about Japan as well. And another Middle Eastern flick would be good.

Fun fact, the Disney Animated Canon has been to the African continent maybe three, four times in its run, but iirc we have yet to see a human African as a major or minor character. Their most prominent African movie is one of the most iconic Mighty Whitey stories out there with zero non-British characters, though there are Africans in the spin-off television series.

If it should be a princess movie, I dunno. Many of the best stories I can think of to adapt to film from African countries (hell, I'm writing one) don't have princes or princesses in them, though there are a couple. That said, if it's not a princess movie Disney will probably just one-and-done it, releasing it and forgetting about it the moment they can get away with it.

edited 31st Jan '18 12:00:02 PM by KnownUnknown

...You think that Tarzan is bigger than The Lion King?

Point stands, though.

does no one realize african princess aren't really a thing? correct me if i'm wrong on this one. the same goes for moana since she's just the chieftain's daughter, not a princess.

If Eddie Murphy got to be Prince Of Zamunda, then Disney can make a Princess from an african fictional country.

Three African countries (Lesotho, Morocco, and Swaziland) are currently monarchies. Many more existed in the past, such as the famous Pharaohs of Egypt or Zulu Kingdom.

edited 31st Jan '18 2:54:44 PM by IniuriaTalis

And the Empire of Ethiopia.

well then, we're sort of set.

To be fair, i doubt african princesses are the kind that Disney markets, with frilly dresses and so on. But I would love to see an african princess anyway.

Historical rant ahoy!

Yeah, that's completely incorrect. Believe it or not, not every African culture was a collection of chiefdoms, though that's an incredibly common misconception. Even many ones that could be considered as such, like (modern) Ghana, did develop into centralized governments over time.

But more to the point, from as early as 800 BC - believed but largely unrecorded to be even earlier - formal West and North African kingdoms and dynastic empires with title systems were absolutely a thing, becoming even more prominent with the spread of Islam into the region (but existing beforehand), resulting in the Sosso, Mali and Songhai empires. Similar kingdoms and empires existed in East Africa, such as in Ethiopia, and in Southern Africa. What the exact titles were changed depending on the culture - Mansa, Baba, etc - but they're still comparable to what Disney does. Even nations that were smaller and less recognized had stories of kings and such.

To clarify what I said earlier, African stories involving princes and princesses are rarer, but that's in part because the end goal and theme of the hero or heroine being rewarded with royalty isn't quite as prominent in many African cultures as they are in Western storytelling. But less common or not, that doesn't mean no stories like that actually exist. They do, and they could be adapted if Disney were so inclined.

Furthermore, there's much to object to the idea that character shouldn't be considered up to the Disney standards of a princess if they come from a chiefdom or a non Europeon-styled title system anyway. If you have a government system with hereditary rule, and a belief system that designates those associated with that rule as more worthy or ordained than others, then what's the narrative difference?

Being literally the child of the ruler ordained to lead her nation into the future, Moana has a more going for her as a princess than a character like, say, Belle, whose prince only mainly in title ruled over a village - or Mulan, especially given that the cultures she references totally did have established monarchies.

Disney didn't avoid making her an official princess because of cultural reasons. They did so because they've been noticeably pulling back on the princess focus in general, resulting in things like Leia not being a princess any more either.

edited 31st Jan '18 4:19:42 PM by KnownUnknown

Cute magical princesses

I guess the question is more what kind of story or myth they can use....I admit, I don't know African (or South American) myths that well, but the ones I do know aren't exactly full of memorable female characters. I mean, I guess there is Queen Marimba, but I can't come up with a particularly memorable story connected to her.

An Arabian Princess is easier, because the stories of 1001 night are pretty well-known. It might even be possible to put Sheherazade herself in the centre of a story, provided that you change the whole set-up and let her go on an adventure instead of having her literally talk for her live to her freaking husband!

That might be a good way to show how she got those stories in the first place.

And it would be awesome if we got more stories from the Middle East, and this time it won't be a theme park version of it but a more accurate take on it. On the other hand, maybe they could do a Middle Eastern tale that not a lot of Westerners have heard of like how Disney's Mulan introduce the West to the legend.

If people criticized Beauty and the Beast for its iffy values, it's going to be a hundred times worst with Scheherazade. King Shahryar is an absolute monster, and an explicitly misogynist one at that, and it would take a lot of doing to make his Heel–Face Turn not feel hollow to modern eyes.

There aren't a whole lot of "princess stories" in the 1001 Nights either (besides Scheherazade - and not counting Aladdin for various reasons - I think the most major one is The Ebony Horse. There are a lot more minor ones, but often you find that princesses (or even princes) are a bit of an afterthought in those stories).

I've always felt - and this is an odd thing to say - that if it wasn't for the fact that it's built upon lots and lots of death and murder, usually pretty gruesome, Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves would make a fantastic Disney movie. It's not strictly a princess movie, but follows all the same beats as one: Ali Baba's in the title, but like The Legend of Zelda he's mostly a supporting character - the true protagonist is Morgiana, a lowly servant girl who falls into Ali Baba's lap when his jackass brother gets killed, and who through ingenuity and bravery protects her family from every threat the Forty Thieves throw at them, in the climax defeating the King of Thieves himself.

She even gets a Gender Flip on the Standard Hero Reward: she gets a piece of Ali Baba's merchant empire and gets one of his sons as a husband.

I remember reading a Disney storybook of Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves with Mickey and Minnie. It was pretty close to the actual tale, minus the part that involved sewing a dismembered corpse back together. :p

I wonder if they could an Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves after Aladdin has referenced it to death, including the fact that the forty thieves appears in a Aladdin sequel.

Bump. Recently I finally finished a fun story idea I came up with. :) (albeit one that took a while). I was thinking of giving some of the ladies in my books dresses based on and inspired by the ones the Disney Princesses like to wear, as a lovely homage.

Disney has attempted projects for: Swan Lake, Oz, Don Quixote (apparently that's back in production?), The Emperor and the Nightingale, Rumplestiltskin, The Sun of Sundiata (no clue what that is but it's set in Africa and sounds royal-ish), Tam Lin...

I still want them to do Oz. Please. I want an Oz movie series that isn't based on the MGM film and is book accurate. Ozma is such a good character.

I didn't know they were planning on doing that one.

Making an animated picture on the Emperor and the Nightingale sounds pretty demoralizing.

I heard Terry Gilliam was working on a Don Quixote movie that might get finished now; is that the same one?

1346: I think I should do a little correction...

After Return To Oz was such a big flop, even despite the cult fanbase it has, I don't think Disney's going to try another crack at a more Baumian Oz, despite the fact it'd be an incredibly good idea.

Disney was supposed to do "The Nightingale" as part of a film about H.C. Andersen's life - this would have been in the 40s, and they were going to provide animation for his fairy tales. They would have also done "The Little Mermaid" and "The Steadfast Tin Soldier" years before they were finally made, as well as "The Fir Tree." The film did get made, with Danny Kaye, and that had no animation in it.