Shingeki no Kyojin/Attack on Titan (Manga Discussion)

Jean is pretty much a normal person under abnormal circumstances. But, here is hoping there are some jokes at the expenses of him and the mule titan.

That explains why Reiner has been getting the spotlight so much lately... too much, I would say.

Frankly, I just don't care about Marley. They're too "lol evil" for me to have any sympathy whatsoever for them.

Marley isn't really getting the focus. The Eldian warriors are, who do indeed have goals beyond serving Marley.

I've been loving this arc. The main trio, except perhaps Armin, are woefully dry. Jean is great but never really got enough focus.

edited 27th Jul '17 10:09:31 AM by SilentColossus

I find the Marley Eldians compelling. They're like what you'd get if Nazi Germany convinced the Jews that all the Nazi propaganda about them was the God's honest truth. These Eldians truly believe they're monsters to one degree or another.

This makes me wonder what the Tybur family will be doing when they make their appearance. Things are being set up for an upset to me.

Yeah, I've been really enjoying this arc. I kind of wish we had gotten some glimpses of these things earlier in the series (Anime, I'm looking at you!) but it's nice to finally get some perspective on the things driving the Warriors during the earlier arcs.

And it's definitely a very dark sort of "What If" situation. These people that have internalized all these horrible things about themselves, and basically have been clinging to these obviously vain hopes for nearly a century. The Tyburs are an interesting twist, in terms of showing that there IS some basis to the whole "Honorary Marleyan" thing. While they don't hope to become wealthy and powerful, it makes sense that the Eldians have continued buying into the whole offer when there actually is a group of Eldians that have lived freely.

That the Tyburs are not only free, but hold international influence and are viewed positively by the world kind of gives greater weight to all those hopes. This one group of Eldians get to live a good life, and be normal people because of their past exceptional service to the world.

While I fully expect to see most of the bunch we're focused on right now dying terribly in the long run, I do enjoy getting to see how the other half lives. Because unlike the nation they serve, they're not really evil. Willing to do atrocious things to survive, but ultimately motivated by the same things that the Wall folks were fighting for. It's all about them trying to save their people, no matter the cost.

It's just that they've been facing the complex geo-political mess a lot longer than Paradis. They've known all along that Marley was the only thing keeping their people alive, even if it was an abusive situation. It's just like how Paradis is now faced with the reality that the whole world is out there, and even if they deal with the immediate threat of Marley....they still have to deal with every other country. They can't realistically Kill All Humans, so they have to find another way.

Unfortunately, thus far the way the mainland Eldians have chosen is to side with Marley and basically sacrifice the smaller population on Paradis to save themselves. Now Zeke is talking about using the Tyburs to create a scapegoat, so they can be the heroes. Of course, I have to wonder what Zeke is actually planning....since we KNOW that entire discussion was a performance for their superiors. Zeke, Reiner, and Pieck all knew they were being monitored.

edited 27th Jul '17 12:25:22 PM by harostar

So another tidbit of interview from Isayama, describing Reiner as "another protagonist" of the series.

http://fuku-shuu.tumblr.com/post/163562027877/isayama-hajime-reiner-is-now-another

(At least until he dies, loool Isayama.)

Supposedly, the rest of the interview may get translated at some point.

Reiner is definitely a lot more important in my mind than he was before. At first he seemed like he was little more than The Heavy to Beast Titan's Big Bad but now he's becoming one of the most complex characters in the series. At this point he's definitely in my top five.

So I caught up with the manga.

On one hand, I'm highly satisfied by how I finally got the answer of just what the hell was in the basement and Eren and co finally reclaimed the world.

...On the other hand, I do have some doubt on how the worldbuilding got so enormous. It took almost 20 volumes to get this far and I have a feeling that we are at most half of the whole story by now.

Actually, if memory serves, Isayama said we passed the halfway point a while ago. While it's been a while since we talked about the estimated numbers and I don't really remember them, I believe that the story only has a couple of years left. Maybe five at most.

...So the anime won't be all finished up next year?

Season 3 will most likely be ending with the Scouts reaching the sea. Season 4 would then be kicking off with the current Marley arc.

The manga isn't done, so of course the anime won't be finished next year. Unless they go the Knights of Sidonia route and just stop at a reasonable point.

edited 3rd Aug '17 7:26:43 PM by TheAirman

Guess you haven't heard that Knights of Sidonia's been picked up for Season 3 and will likely conclude the manga story.

Wait what? Did this just get announced last month or something?

Is that series any good? I remember seeing it on Netflix a while ago and checking out part of the first episode but the CG animation looked horrid from what I remember.

The CG works orders of magnitude better in the mecha /space scenes, and the animation is all around better in season 2. Same studio that did (is doing?) Ajin. Baller as fuck O Ps. Plot wise you could call it "early SnK with giant robots In Space" ^* although Sidonia no Kishi (yes they're both SnK) actually came first (that is: humanity facing imminent extinction via relentless nightmarish monsters) with some slice of life-ish/romance elements as personal stories develop. Same author who did Blame! Without spoiling anything all I can say about the ending is that it is a thing that exists and I urge you to not spoil yourself if you wish to fully appreciate it. Personally I was content with the anime ending how it did with season 2, but I can't complain about getting more.

Seasons are 12 episodes; and the anime reorganizes some things for pacing. If you find yourself with free time and nothing else you'd rather do I say blitz it, or at least give it a fair shot. Or read it.

edited 4th Aug '17 12:27:15 AM by TheAirman

I think I will after I finish up Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters. I know JYB voices the MC in the English dub so that'll make it at least not a complete waste of time if nothing else.

Isayama was ruthless once again.

All aboard the feels train!

• Chapter is entirely flashbacks, beginning from the last chapter.
• Annie and Bertolt catch up to Reiner, and start discussing how they need to abandon the mission. It can't continue without Marcel, their leader. Reiner freaks out, and wonders whether any of them will be spared if they come back failures. Annie argues for just retrieving the Jaws, and Reiner says doing so may just get them all killed because only the Cart is fast enough to catch that Titan. Bertolt was the only one that could use his Titan immediately, but Reiner says they can't be sure the new Titan won't be able to or not. He says the only way they can go home if if they have some sort of success, otherwise they're all in danger. Annie accuses him of threatening them.
• Annie flips out, and begins kicking Reiner while screaming at him. She demands he tell the Captain it's all his fault, and starts screaming about how the whole world are just selfish liars. She's 100% done and just wants to go home. She tells him to go die.
• Bloody Reiner tackles her from behind, and gets her into a chokehold. He tells her that "Reiner is dead. If we need Marcel, I'll become Marcel." and convinces them both that they have no choice but to press forward. If they don't they'll be killed by Titans or executed for their failure. They're all crying and he promises they'll all go home together.
• The plan was for Annie and Marcel to take turns running to the Wall, with a rope around their necks so the others could safely ride. But Annie ends up doing it solo, and collapses once they see the Wall in the distance. Reiner runs the rest of the way, and Bertolt does his thing. He looks over the Wall, and sees Eren and co down below. Reiner notes destroying the Wall is necessary to get a reaction from the King, so they can attempt to locate the Founding Titan. After kicking it, Titans start swarming them and Reiner barely escapes from them. Bertolt sees a Titan coming for him....and it's the Smiling Titan, who just calmly walks right past him into Wall Maria. Reiner grabs Bert, and climbs the Wall with the other two on board. Annie faints, so Bert stays with her atop the Wall while Reiner does his part. He thinks about how he was never really supposed to be there, and Marcel's apology, and realizes he needs to learn why Marcel saved him.
• Afterwards, the three wake up in the refugee center. Reiner apologizes to them, and they all hug and promise to become true warriors. While working the fields, they meet a survivor from an isolated mountain village. He tells the same story Bertolt told Eren and Amin, except he notes that in running away he abandoned his three children about their age. The next morning, the man hung himself. Nobody could remember the name of the village, and said it was so tiny it wasn't on the maps.
• Two years later, they're basically found out the Fritz family are fakes and the real King is in hiding. Annie jokes that she should become a servant, or seduce one of the nobles to get close. But she admits Wall Sina has been sealed since the breach, and no new servants are allowed in. The only way for them to get inside is to join the military, and eventually become members of the Central Military Police. (During that time, only women were permitted to go anywhere. Reiner and Bert stayed in the fields) Annie suggests just cutting their losses, and destroying the other two Walls immediately. Reiner points out doing so may cause the King to panic, and simply destroy everything in a suicidal fit. They agree to join the military, though Annie still just wants to get it all over with. Reiner at the enlistment ceremony tells Shadis he is there to save humanity.

edited 4th Aug '17 12:04:20 PM by harostar

Beat me to it, harostar. Yeah, Isayama pulls no punches. I seriously hope this is the last flashback, honestly. I appreciate extra perspectives, but I think we have a near-complete picture of everything now. We can fill in the blanks ourselves. I just kinda want to see what the festival in Marley is going to be like, and if it will involve Hoboren showing up like we suspected.

edited 4th Aug '17 11:14:54 AM by Crinias

Well, how many chapters are left in this volume? I'm betting Isayama will have a major cliffhanger for the volume end.

But man, the dynamics this chapter. Interesting how Annie and Reiner both seem to have adopted their parent's worst qualities as a defense mechanism. Reiner clings to delusions and lashes out with manipulation, while Annie just goes straight from apathy into extreme, physical violence. BRA really do darkly reflect EMA, in terms of their relationships and dynamics. Reiner being the one driving them all forward with passion and stubborn beliefs, but also reflecting Historia in terms of responding to a traumatic loss by rejecting themselves and trying to become an idealized version of a loved one for others.

And Annie, wavering between simply being lazy/apathetic towards the other two....and beating Reiner to vent the same way she attacked her father. It seems like he took her words to heart, too. Both that Marcel was the only person that could get them through things, so he had to become Marcel. And him ending up taking the blame for the mission, and offering himself as a scapegoat just like Annie told him to. They had a pretty messed-up dynamic from the get-go, as opposed to the Marco thing being unusual. They've been lashing out at each other from the beginning.

It's also kind....disturbing in a Fridge Horror kind of way to find out that only women were allowed to leave the fields, and go into the city. So its likely that Annie did the most info-gathering and spying, while the other two were stuck working in the fields. And her joking about becoming a Honey Trap in order to get close to the royal family. Yikes.

edited 4th Aug '17 1:15:11 PM by harostar

Also, am I the only one getting the impression that Annie was really close to Marcel? At least, that he was the person she was closest to in the Warriors? Because she's not only so upset about his loss, but so angry and her lashing out at Reiner seems less about him arguing with her and more just.....being angry at him because of that.

I also find it really interesting how Annie and Reiner's parental issues give them very opposing responses to shit hitting the fan. The promises and expectations drive them in completely different directions. Annie's dad told her to come home, so she tries to run the moment things go bad. And Reiner's mom told him to succeed, so he doubles-down aggressively when things are going bad. She tries to basically go "It's not any of my business/ I don't care" and avoid everything, while he tries to drag others into it with him. And of course, Bertolt who just went along with whatever either one was telling him or stood around helplessly until they finished fighting. I guess they needed Marcel not just as a leader, but as the glue that kept them from going to pieces because of their conflicting personalities and damage.

So when Reiner did his whole "Then I must become Marcel" bit did anybody else think it would have been interesting if Reiner wasn't actually his name? Given his identity issues and stuff I think it would have been a neat twist if Marcel was Reiner's real name and he only adopted the latter after this incident. Granted that twist would have been hard to disguise but I still think it could have been a neat route for the story to take.

So season 2 production notes have officially confirmed that the titan Sasha 1-v-1'd was in fact Connie's dad.

Good thing my Japanese is still good enough to at least let me understand the info. Yep, it was him.

I won't ask about why the hell he was there and not somewhere else because Dina. And all of her friends, for that matter.

It was a nearby village with people to eat. Dina kept showing up at the right/worst places and times because rule of drama, but Connie's dad would have been basically right there to begin with.

I always figured Dina was attracted to Grisha/Eren because her final human thoughts were basically "find Grisha".