There Are No Girls on The Internet- reason for this assumption?

No apologies necessary. The only point I was trying to make was that "guy-until-proven-otherwise" has been my personal policy since I was very young and I don't mean anything by it. That said, if someone tells me they are a girl I will take their word for it.

And there's nothing insulting about that too if you ask me.

In the 90s, around one in five internet users was female.

Of those one in five, around one in five felt motivated to talk about it. Whether because they felt uncomfortable or, far more commonly, they just didn't see the point having been female their whole lives.

So when people inevitably asked who the female users were in an online community there were almost no replies. Usually the question was asked by a new user who didn't realise it had been asked several times before. "There are no girls on the internet" grew as a meme to stop these questions which didn't serve any purpose beyond making a few people uncomfortable.

It is out of date and maybe the reply now ought to be "There have been since 1997 actually."

While I know you don't mean any insult by it, it's still not a good thing. Do I need to pull out some articles/videos on the 'Male as default, female as deviation' phenomena?

No one said deviation. The point is the internet and perhaps society in general just uses male for a gender neutral term unless given otherwise.

Its not some conspiracy to put women down.

I mean, what do you expect people to do?

Type s/he instead of he or him/her instead of him unless shown otherwise?

edited 21st Aug '12 1:01:44 AM by Thorn14

Use gender neutral nouns as best as possible? If they don't know them, look it up.

I mean, I always use "Guy" to mean a "person", and explain it right away. I know that is often means male due to "Guys and Gals". So we could use "Peeps" instead to solve that.

I think based upon one's avatar is understandable, though. Because really... there's no honest way to tell personalities that are clearly male or female at this point. Everybody just acts who they are.

I admit there is no perfect default. I often ask outside of their avatar use, and quickly correct myself and apologize for the mistake. Being extra kind is always a very nice thing to do these days. It provides a very friendly environment and avoids pointless flame wars that often happen because one person can't be a bit nicer.

And it is bad that society does that. The default human experience is not male.

Seeing male as the default and women as a deviation from the default is at the root of many, many sexist things.

And it really is not that hard to just use 'they' or 's/he'. Truly, it isn't. Other stuff (like 'guys') is a bit more difficult until we can find a gender-neutral alternative word, but pronouns are really simple.

"Use gender neutral nouns as best as possible?"

It?

Sorry but that just sounds like Political Correctness Gone Mad

The default human experience is not male, but for the english language, male is the default gender neutral term.

And good luck changing a language.

edited 21st Aug '12 1:29:20 AM by Thorn14

Try hir and s/he. You had the right idea when you edited. Ask around for ones that might mean both. "It" is reserved for the genderless, not both. Like a robot.

Erm, using they isn't exactly new in the English language. At least as old as Chaucer.

edited 21st Aug '12 1:38:21 AM by Zersk

Good luck changing a language? Do you realise how often languages change? Languages are in a constant state of evolving and changing. If you went back in time far enough, you wouldn't be able to understand the people, even though they were still speaking 'English'.

A shift to 'they' or 's/he' instead of 'he' is small fry compared to many other changes that have taken place.

Frankly, your attitude of 'LET'S NOT CHANGE SEXIST STUFF BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN DOING IT THAT WAY FOR AGES' really, really bothers me. How do you think the world got to the state it's in today? People tried to change it, and they succeeded. Do you think women could always vote? Do you think that racism was always considered a bad thing?

^Hes trying to argue that it isn't sexist, not that sexist stuff shouldn't be changed.

I always thought "guy" was gender neutral. I even use it when referring to a group entirely composed of females without a male at all.

This. Thank you.

People scream sexist way way too much around here.

Saying hir or he/she is just a needless hassle over an issue that isn't worth getting so upset about (I mean hir is even counted as a typo).

Just politely correct them if they're wrong and move on.

edited 21st Aug '12 1:51:02 AM by Thorn14

You know, sexism isn't all glaring "stay-in-the-kitchen" misogyny.

A lot of it is quite subtle and burrowed into our brains.

I have no clue whether or not this is off-topic. >.>

I really dislike when people call trivial things like this "sexist"

It makes the word "sexist" lose value.

It is.

edited 21st Aug '12 1:59:16 AM by DeviantBraeburn

If preferring to say "him" and "he" unless corrected or is sexist then I guess I'm sexist.

Whenever someone says that, these days, I think of this:

@Zersk: No, it is not off topic; and I definitely agree with you.

Portraying men as the 'default' and women as something other is sexist. And that's what using male as a default expression does. I don't know how you can claim that it isn't sexist, particularly when it would be such a simple and easy thing to change.

It pushes women into the category of 'niche group', when they make up half of the audience. It means that media has to be focussed towards men first and foremost, and anything that isn't has to be shuffled off into a little 'For The Ladies' box a bit off to the side, or tacked on as an afterthought. Most of the 'for men'/'for women' dichotomy is artificial anyway, but this still has an effect on society.

Male characters can just be characters first and men second. Female characters are a woman first and a character second. Let's see... The Smurfette Principle. Female Success is Family.

Oh, look, I found a quote there that explains my position well. "The name of this trope was first coined by an article in the New York Times printed April 7, 1991, called "The Smurfette Principle". The article discussed the negative message which this trope gave its young audience: that males are individuals who have adventures, while females are a type of deviation who exist only in relation to males."

Men are free to be simply people. Women have to be female people. I don't think it's 'political correctness gone mad' to simply want everybody to be a person first and a gender second.

Little things about the way we talk and act in everyday life matter.

edited 21st Aug '12 2:05:28 AM by LoniJay

Guess I'm Sexist to. That or to lazy to change a habit that doesn't hurt anybody and only offends the overly politically correct.

I know! We can start a "Sexist Tropers" group at Tropers Covens!

It'll be fun.

What Loni said. :o

Thorn/Braeburn: Um okay. :/

edited 21st Aug '12 2:10:55 AM by Zersk

@Morwen:I was going to say your avatar leads people to think your male but I looked it up and it turns out female walruses have tusks.

Funny that.

Walruses are funny creatures.

Are we Off-Topic?

edited 21st Aug '12 2:21:24 AM by DeviantBraeburn

I just always assume that people with walrus avatars either were Paul McCartney or are John Lennon.

It's still how people are perceived on the internet based on only what's initially observable!

edited 21st Aug '12 2:23:28 AM by 0dd1

Meh, there are only members of Homo sapiens to me. And if it doesn't freak people out I'd use 'it'.