What about a second thumb? It might provide additional strength and stability to the hand's grip.
As to names, given the relative simplicity of names for our complement of five, perhaps simply "second thumb"; otherwise, does the finger have any particular cultural significance, such as had by the "ring finger" in our culture? G Iven the described ubiquity of the number six, perhaps "lucky finger"?
My Games & Writing
Running with the two thumb idea, what about 'thumb' and 'contrathumb'? Gets the idea across pretty succinctly with it being a thumb on the normal side and a second thumb on the opposite side.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
, I had briefly considered the idea of a "bmuth" ("thumb" spelled backwards) already, but quickly came up with two reasons against it: Firstly, if having thumbs on both sides of the palm were evolutionarily advantageous, surely we'd have that ourselves, considering that all it takes are gradual changes. Secondly, and of more practical importance, it would mean having to carefully think about every single scene in which someone uses their hands, which means pretty much every single scene, period, since that would change the functionality of the entire hand in rather significant ways. An extra finger, on the other hand (pun quite unintended), won't make much of a difference in most situations.
Love the "lucky finger" suggestion. The only downside is that it replaces "little finger", and so leaves me with just as many fingers to be named as before. Nevertheless, thanks! 
ETA: Scratch that, "lucky finger" is more helpful than I thought: The numbers 6 and 7 are considered lucky/sacred, whereas 5 is considered unlucky/cursed. Hence, I can apply the same approach to the fifth finger, with the added benefit of turning that one into the finger which they'd preferrably use for insulting gestures. Excellent! 
edited 8th Aug '12 10:50:52 AM by kassyopeia
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Developing a contrathumb is a major redesign of the entire hand structure. It's not going to happen gradually, any more than developing a third leg would. It would be a major mutation of skeletal and muscular structure. Currently, there's nothing there to become the contrathumb. Gradual mutations require that there be something there to change in the first place.
Check out Frank Hogan's Giants series; his Ganymeans have a contrathumb.
And if you aren't willing to carefully think out each scene where someone uses their hands, you'd best not make any huge changes to the structure or form of the hands. The Rule of Cool only goes so far.
edited 9th Aug '12 7:46:37 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
My apologies, I must have explained myself rather badly there.
I meant that if it were beneficial for our existing fifth finger to work more like a second thumb than like a fourth non-thumb finger, then that change would surely have happened, as it could be accomplished by gradual changes. For support of that claim, consider the transition of the opposable "foot-thumb" in other primates into our rather less prehensile big toe (image
◊). The cases aren't entirely parallel, of course, but the magnitude of change involved is at least superficially quite similar.
Indeed. That's why I'm looking for the way to add an extra finger which affects the hand's functionality as little as possible. The only change I actually want is the one which makes a numeral system base six (or twelve or twenty-four) natural instead of awkward.
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Superficially it's similar. But the transition of the foot-thumb into a non-opposable toe is a simplification of the structure. The reverse (the transition from a non-opposable finger into an opposable thumb) is a large increase in the complication level of the structure, since the wrist joint has to be modified as well as the finger. And keep in mind that for a gradual change to progress, it must be sufficiently beneficial at all the intermediate stages as well. Evolution doesn't plan ahead. Evolution doesn't plan, period.
edited 9th Aug '12 10:11:01 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
I appreciate your perspective, but I don't share it.
Several mammalian species have independently evolved thumbs (for various purposes), and they're always on the same side of the palm as ours, as far as I know. Moles even have two thumbs, and they're both on that side. It's not that I would claim to understand the physiological reasons why it turns out that way, I'm just observing the fact.
And I don't mean to imply that this conclusively shows that thumbs on both sides can't be advantageous, and that it just so happens that Evolution has missed that particular fitness peak (as it misses so many). Combined with having no real incentive to make that particular modification in the first place, though, the observed fact is all I need, really.
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
If the species has six fingers on each hand, then you might consider doing their counting in base 12. After all, we count in base 10 because that's how many fingers we have.
"Steel wins battles. Gold wins wars."
Number-words are mixed base (mixed meaning various multiples of six) for historical reasons. Written maths is done in strict base-six, though, so there is a disconnect between saying and writing numbers. Think "four-score" versus "80", but taken quite a bit further.
I agree with Jimmy T Malice. That is a very good idea. But it would be harder as the writer to do that. Maybe you could still count in base ten if you find it hard writing base twelvel for reasons that have something to do with old stories,deity, ect. But base 12 is a very good idea on the hole.
Hmmm, I seem to have trouble getting this across: I'm giving them six fingers BECAUSE I want them to count in base-6n, not the other way around. Having them count in base-10 even though they have six fingers would be a bit paradoxical.
You're right that it makes things a little harder, but not significantly so. I need to come up with non-decimal-based number words beyond ten, which I've already done. Other than that, I just need to keep in mind that the dozenal "hundred" (gross) and "thousand" are a bit bigger than their decimal equivalents, but that can be treated as a correction after the fact: Take the decimal number and reduce it by some percentage. It's not like, say, binary, where the orders of magnitude are completely different and unfamiliar.
Compared with the challenge the "counter-thumb" would pose for a writer, this is a walk in the park, IMO.
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Oh, ok. Sorry. Didn't quite understand what you were trying to say. Good luck with that counting though...
Why are you apologizing? I'm the one who evidently did a bad job explaining things.
No no no. You did not do a bad job. I simply read badly, I see now what you ment.
anyway, we are getting off-topic. So, back on topic, I would say in all scenes using intricate counting and sums, think through those well and check after.
Okay, back on topic, this is my preliminary naming scheme:
- Thumb
- Next finger
- Near finger
- ?
- (Unlucky finger)
- Lucky finger
Unlike what I intended originally, I now think it's better to use distinct names for all fingers except the thumb. That way, the reader is reminded that this isn't (quite) the familiar five-fingered hand, whenever a finger is mentioned. I've planted little hooks like that in a few others of my naming schemes, and there's no reason not to do the same here, that I can see. As long as the names don't get too cryptic, that is.
The second and third finger are named with reference to the thumb - the one next to it, and the one near to it. The fifth and sixth finger are named for the superstitions associated with the numbers 5 and 6, respectively. That gives the scheme a nice basic symmetry, with the two pairs on either side of the longest finger (the fourth) having a common theme. I'd like to replace "unlucky" with something slightly more distinctive, if possible, just haven't been able to think of anything so far. "Cursed" is too dramatic for my taste, at any rate.
For the fourth finger, I haven't got any good ideas, so far. "Middle finger" would be fine, except that that would be the only non-original name. "Long finger" I don't really like, both because of the English use of that term as an epithet, and because there isn't a "short finger" to go with it. Hmmm.
ETA: Maybe something like "tip finger", since it's the one that constitutes the tip of the hand's outline when the fingers are closed. Plus, wordplay on "finger tip".
edited 14th Aug '12 8:21:23 AM by kassyopeia
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Maybe something euphemistic for 'unlucky finger' to counteract the bad luck? 'Nameless finger' or call after something that's lucky in the world (something like 'rabbit foot finger')?
www.curiouslylydean.net - comics, writing, and other geeky things
You're probably already aware that some ancient cultures used based-12, presumably because 10 fingers + 2 feet.
Going by your other thread, perhaps the missing finger could have some special symbolic meaning. Life, talent, virtue, etc.
My current favourite for the fourth is "stick finger", because the longest one sticks out (farthest), and there was some secondary association which I can't actually quite recall at the moment. Bah.
Anyway, it's good that you bumped this thread, because I've tweaked my number word system slightly and now find myself needing a term for "eleven". This is a good a place as any to see if someone else has any bright ideas.
It starts off in the usual way, except that the one word which has two syllables in English is contracted: One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Sen, Eight, Nine, Ten.
Then comes the one I don't have, and then Shill for twelve, which works well because of the still somewhat familiar twelve pence in a shilling on the one hand and the etymology of the word being "a split" on the other.
After that, the terms are directly related to the way in which Altlings count on their fingers: Like us to ten/twelve, i.e. by starting with two fists and then uncurling the fingers one by one until there aren't any curled fingers left. They then continue to count to twenty-four by curling the fingers again in the inverse order; basically, like playing a film of counting to ten backwards. The corresponding number words simply state how many fingers are left uncurled compounded with a stem meaning "left": Somethingleven, Tenleven, Nineleven, Eightleven, Senleven, Sixleven, Fiveleven, Fourleven, Threeleven, Twoleven, Oneleven.
The next number is "one score", because traditionally they'd score a tally mark on a clay tablet at that point. And so on. This is why "shill" makes sense for the half-score: it's an "even split".
Obviously, I can't use "eleven" for eleven. It would actually work conceptually, since "one left" describes eleven relative to twelve just as well as it describes it relative to ten, which is where our word comes from. But it nevertheless won't do at all, since I'm repurposing the "-leven" construction entirely.
The best I thought of so far were "sive", as a contraction of "six and five", which I don't like because all of the other words up to twelve aren't composites, and "nomb" as a contraction of "no thumb", assuming that the thumb would be last finger to be left curled, which I don't like because none of the other words make direct reference to specific fingers either.
Please post any ideas, no matter how stupid you might think them. The only requirement is that it's got to be a one-syllable word.
edited 7th Sep '12 10:39:24 PM by kassyopeia
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Why break Translation Convention just for numbers? If you want to emphasize that they count in base-12, have them count "ten, eleven, twelve, twelve-and-one, twelve-and-two".
If you want to create a different number system for them, I say start from the beginning and make up new names for all the numbers based on their language's phonology. It will be a little confusing for the reader, but I don't think there's a way to avoid it.
It seems a little arbitrary to have them speak English for some numbers but not for others.
If you just want a random sound, how about "Yee", pronounced like the letter E. It's part of eleven, and it's Mandarin Chinese for 'one'.
EDIT: I don't mean to sound dismissive, I'm sure you have your reasons, I'd just like to know what they are.
edited 7th Sep '12 10:52:55 PM by Topazan
No dismission (?) taken. The background is that Altlang, or whatever the Altlings' language is called, derives from two sources. One is the language spoken by their hunter-gatherer ancestors, the other is the language spoken by a Precursor culture which subjugated those ancestors long* ago and taught them everything from the alphabet to ziggurat-building (they're not really called ziggurats, but that was the first suitable z-word that came to mind). The ancestral language supplies most of the backbone of modern Altlang as well as most of the everyday vocabulary, while most of the concepts in areas like religion and science and technology are contributed by the precursory language.
This aspect of their history becomes fairly central to the plot later on, and thus has to be carefully incorporated from the beginning. Fortunately, English makes a very good stand-in for Altlang, since it, too, draws from two fairly distinct sources: Anglo-Saxon and other Germanic dialects on the one hand, and Classical Greek and Latin and Norman French and other Romance additions on the other hand.
Hence, my translation convention is a bit convoluted: Translate everything to English that can be translated*, but do so only in a way that preserves the original concepts and yields the right sort of register.
In this case, that means translating the number words in a way that's as comprehensible as possible while retaining as much of the underlying method of counting as possible. Thus, the words from twelve to twenty-four go out the window right away, because those are etymologically decimal, and that just won't do at all. How they count is up to 12 by means of fundamental number words and then "down" to 24 by means of applying a modifier to each of those number words. "-leven", familiar from "eleven" and, slightly concealed, "twelve", hits most of the right notes in that regard, which is why I'm using it.
I could indeed simply make up new words, but what would be the point of that? Once the reader has understood the "-leven" system, they can easily work that "sixleven" means 18 when they come across it in the text. If I give them "dok'wob" instead, they have to both understand the "dok" system and look up "wob" in some lengthy wordlist which I'd have to include as an appendix. So, I ask, what would be the gain? And even if they do all that, they still can't easily tell that "dok'wob" derives from ancestral rather than the precursory roots, whereas "sixleven" is clearly Germanic and thus implies that it's ancestral, as I intend it to.
Which leaves me at my unstated starting place for the previous post (sorry about that): I want to use English, and can do so straightforwardly for the most part, but "eleven" and "twelve" (and "dozen", incidentally), being originally compound terms, just don't cut it in this case, so I have two holes to plug in the most comprehensible way possible. "Shill" for "twelve" is as good a fit as I could hope for, I think.
edited 8th Sep '12 12:10:05 AM by kassyopeia
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Ok, I understand a little better.
I think you're thinking about this very hard. I wouldn't be surprised if not many people know the etymology of the words 'eleven' and 'twelve' (I sure didn't), and those that do are perfectly capable of suspending their disbelief and assuming translation convention.
Your reasons for not making up a whole new number system are the same reasons I wouldn't make up part of a new number system. The suffix "leven" meaning is not much more intuitive to me than "dok'wob". Either way, understanding it would take careful concentration.
I would try to adapt English to the alien concepts rather than inventing too many new linguistic constructs. For example, 13 could be "a score-less-eleven", 14 "a score-less-ten".
Of course, that's not an exact reflection of the meaning, so I could understand using a new language construct for the larger numbers if it's important to the plot. However, I don't see the need to rename eleven and twelve.
Yes, I plead unconditionally guilty to that. I love reading books which have layers upon layers of hidden meanings, so that's what I'm always aiming at writing myself as well.
I share the sentiment, which is why, whenever possible, I try to find compromises between terms that carry a familiar meaning and terms that make sense in-universe. Like "score", which has a value as close as no matter to the familiar one of 20 and at the same time is descriptive of how they count. The next two number words above that are "cross" and "click" for 144 (six score) and 1,296 (nine cross), and I'm very happy with those: A "gross" are twelve dozen, and is marked in-universe by drawing a cross; a "klick" is military jargon for a kilo(metre), i.e. a thousand, and is marked in-universe by a group (a "clique") of crosses. I'm not going to explain any of that to the reader directly, I'll just use them in ways that make the meanings clear and leave it to them to pick up on the layers... or not. Those are the kinds of words I really want for 11 and 12, but I'm not expecting to find them.
Yes, that would work and would be slightly more comprehensible. I guess it's my sense of aesthetics that prefers "tenleven" to "score-less-ten" rather than my rational mind. As I said, I find writing most enjoyable if I consider myself as representative of my target audience, and that's ultimately what counts, isn't it. 
I suppose it is what counts.
A less obscure term for 12 is 'dozen', from which you can get 'doz' or 'zen'.
11, hmm. It's the fifth integer prime. Its most distinctive feature is its symmetry, but it only has that in a decimal system. Ooh, take a look at this
.
'English-speaking surveyors have developed several slang terms for 11 to distinguish it from its rhyme "seven": "punk," "top," & "railroad"'
Could one of those work?
Ah, thanks! I'd already looked at that page but given up on it too soon, apparently, since I never made it to that section. "Railroad" definitely wouldn't work, given the nature of the setting, and "top" has a strong primary meaning which doesn't connect with the in-universe significance of this number in any way. There's nothing wrong with "punk", though.
However, just below that they mention that "ace" counts as 11 in blackjack and other card games, and I'm really liking that term, somehow. Etymologically, it pretty much means "one", which makes it suitable for the number which is "one less than a half score". Apparently, it also had a connotation of "bad luck" in Middle English, which is perfect since 11 would have that connotation as well, being one short of a multiple of the divine six. And it starts with a vowel, like "eleven", which goes a little way towards making the connection easier to remember. So, I'm pretty much sold on that one now, unless something even better comes along. "Ten, Ace, Shill", yes, I can definitely live with that quite happily.
And I'd never have come across that one if you hadn't pointed me in the right direction, so I'm really glad I made the effort to post and explain this!
My protagonist humanoids have an extra finger on each hand and an extra toe on each foot, for a total of six digits per extremity (just to be clear). The number six is conspicuously omnipresent in their natural environment and has a central place in their culture, so giving them the standard number of fingers would just have been weird. What I haven't quite worked out, though, are the details.
For one thing, I'm not entirely clear on how their hands should be structured. Let's describe an ordinary human hand as "T-2-3-2-1", where T is the thumb and the numbers indicate the relative lengths of the four fingers. How would you modify that description to include a naturally evolved, functional extra finger? You may want to have a look at photos of twelve-fingered polydactyl humans (google
), to see which configurations look relatively natural and which look more like aberrations. Of course, "natural-looking" and "functional" aren't necessarily the same thing.
For another thing, I'd like to have names for the individual fingers, just in case I need to refer to them in the plot at some point. I've done a little research on what the fingers are called in other human languages, and the results were disappointingly monotonous: The second finger is always called either "pointing finger" ("index finger") or "gripping finger", the third finger always "middle finger" or "long finger" (and the latter name is a double entendre in English, which makes it less than ideal), and the fifth finger "little finger". I can directly adopt "index finger" for the second finger and "little finger" for the sixth finger; if I use "middle finger", it should probably refer to the fourth finger rather than the third, since that's the middle one if one doesn't count the thumb.
The names for the human fourth finger are more varied across languages, but nevertheless all seem to stem from a common theme, namely the (unfounded) traditional belief that there exists a vena amoris, a vein or nerve which connects the heart directly with the fourth finger of the left hand. In some cultures, that leads to "heart finger" and then "love finger" and then "ring finger", in others, it leads to "noble finger", "magical finger", and even "nameless finger" (think Candyman and Voldemort).
I can't simply adopt "ring finger", as that only makes sense in the context of our cultural background. I could use one of the other names, but those all seem too obscure to make sense to the average reader unless I go to the length of introducing a vena amoris superstition of my own, which seems a bit over the top.
So, I need definitely one original name for the extra finger, probably another for the fifth finger, and possibly another if I end up not using "middle finger". The more descriptive, the better. Any ideas?
edited 8th Aug '12 9:20:27 AM by kassyopeia
Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.