The Vorkosigan Saga, by Lois McMaster Bujold

Lord Vortala ("If a horse's ass can become a Count, why not the whole horse?").

And while I wasn't there at the time, I'm pretty sure Caligula was only joking (combined with a "You're so unimportant it really doesn't matter who I choose as my co-Consul).

edited 18th Mar '13 11:15:11 AM by JohnPotts

Heh. Little Boots never took himself and his Imperium anything other than seriously. If he said Incitatus was going to be a Consul, then Incitatus was going to be a Consul. Or someone was going to get killed.

The funny thing is that no-one really knows if the sources that said all this stuff were serious or not.

Just finished reading Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen. It's a good book, but it's very different from the others. For one thing, there really isn't a villain in the book other than time and career aspirations. For two, there's very little action, even less than in A Civil Campaign. Instead, it reads more as a meditation on love found in middle age and changes in gender politics. And boy did this one go even further into the gender politics... let's just say that Aral and Cordelia's marriage had a hidden aspect that dates back to the earliest Miles books.

Overall, I liked it, though.

edited 14th Mar '16 5:51:21 AM by FuzzyBoots

Spoiler some of that. Some of us don't have easy access to the book as we don't live in the States, and the book isn't in any of our easily available bookshops.

Imo, Gentleman Jole works best if viewed more as an Epilogue for Cordelia (and maybe the entire Saga). And hey, the thing between them happened when we only had Miles Po V. He's self-centered enough sometimes to not notice shit

edited 13th Mar '16 12:53:40 AM by 3of4

To be fair a lot of it also happened when he was off gallivanting around the galaxy with the Dendarii Free Mercenaries. And a lot of his time at home he was pre-occupied with medial procedures. It wasn't just Miles being self-absorbed and oblivious (not that he wasn't those as well).

Sadly, we never get inside his head for real during his book. 30+ years of Fridge Horror as he puts the clues in the right context have to be purely hilarious

I've yet to read any of the pre-Miles novels (Barryar, Shards of Honor, etc.). Is this new one a Cordelia novel and should I read more of her backstory before reading it or am I fine with just having read the Miles ones? Trying to stay away from spoilers.

Its a Cordelia one, and I strongly suggest reading Shards of Honor and Barrayar before

Bujold did do a pretty good job in my opinion of adding bits of backstory so that you can get the gist without reading the prior books.

As always, I highly recommend participating in the Baen message boards, where LMB frequently posts to respond to reader comments and questions. Regarding the three-way marriage between Jole, Aral, and Cordelia, she does point out out that those looking for clues in earlier books will likely be a bit frustrated because while she had it in the back of her head since the start that Aral never stopped being bisexual just because he was married, she did not have plans to actually have a side-relationship until a spate of writer's block during Captain Vorpatril's Alliance, which was the genesis of this book. While Jole does indeed show up as in The Vor Game, he was initially just a background character and she feels that Cordelia's line about Aral having used to be bisexual but is now monogamous was not meant to erase his gender preferences, but rather to indicate that Aral wasn't likely to stray, and as a cutting comment by Cordelia in the heat of the moment. I personally still am not happy with that development, both because I have some fairly traditional views on marriage and also because, the way it's framed, Aral starts the relationship without talking with Cordelia and presents the truth after the fact, and that just doesn't feel like it fits his character. Then again, that might also be a trait that he shares with Miles in how Miles tended to have all sorts of little side-relationships even while he still kept Quinn in mind as the woman he'd eventually wind up with. But ultimately, it was something that I could accept as simply being part of the characters' history. Cordelia, being who she is, simply accepts it in the framework of Betan open-mindedness, but it still bothers me that it doesn't bother her.

Oh, and currently listening to this podcast, which LMB posted a link to with a note saying that they really got what she was looking to convey in the book.

edited 14th Mar '16 6:08:14 AM by FuzzyBoots

Finished the book about, oh, fifteen/twenty hours after buying it. I had to sleep after all...

I was very impressed. It packs and unpacks quite a lot of stuff about the lives of the main characters that we've not seen before, and I agree with the above poster - It does work as an epilogue to the entire saga - if we don't get another book I won't be too disappointed.

There's bits I would probably want to talk about later, but it's early in the morning and I'm rather tired.

Me suspects that if Bujold writes more books they may be set before Jole, or maybe be Ivan books, keeping it as the cap-stone to Shards of Honor ground stone

Or maybe "The Adventures of Lord Sascha Vorkosigan!". No, strike that. It'd be more hilarious if his eldest daughter inherited Miles's craziness, maybe with the "I want into the Service even if I'm a girl." aiming to be Barrayars first female Warship Captain.

Ivan:"...Dear god. Its Miles with boobs." *gets whapped by Tej* "what, she is?"

edited 15th Mar '16 1:46:49 AM by 3of4

I have long hypothesised it would be one of his daughters that would drive Miles mad. It would take entrenched Barryaran sexism to produce the same frustrated drive that drove Miles in the absence of something like his physical defects.

The latest reforms in the Barrayaran military included the Imperial Women's Auxiliary Service, so there's already females aboard Barrayaran Imperial ships.

To the unbounded joy of some of the senior officers. And yes, I'm being highly ironic.

Its still a Ersatz Service, clerk duties and stuff. They are probably not getting commands

You missed out an operative word there, methinks.

"Yet!"

I wouldn't bet against the offspring of that hyperactive little tax inspector ( I know he's much more than that) being some of the first females to get flag rank of their very own.

Yes, and I kinda want to read that story!

Or alternately, if not able to get to command via the military, take a page from the Miles Vorkosigan playbook and form her own mercenary group from ragtag bunches of misfits...

(Yes, I know the original one had female members, but imagine the anguish of Miles seeing one of his little girls following his bad example of "can't get what I want? I'll play by a different set of rules!" )

edited 17th Mar '16 9:47:07 PM by Nohbody

......Old Lady Admiral Quinn meeting a certain hyped up 16 year old Barrayan girl who is in the process of hijacking her fleet?

"Oh god, not again?"

edited 18th Mar '16 6:50:15 AM by 3of4

Huh. Lois denies that Shards of Honor started as fanfction:

Since Gentleman Jole shows she wants to take the series in new directions, I'm really hoping she does an Admiral Quinn book. First of all, Miles got to move on. It seems unfair to leave Quinn hanging. She should have an opportunity to explore what other things she likes in men, just as Miles did. And maybe learn a bit about what sort of kinks Miles left behind for her. "Ooh, this one's short, and kinda funny-looking—am I starting to drool?"

I also think there'd be some great opportunity for comedy as Quinn wrestles with the right way to approach challenges. "Should I try to solve this the way an insane, hyperactive little git would? Or should I approach it as the competent, experienced woman of the galaxy that I am? Insane git does have that history of success...."

I still hope for a story where Miles daughter turns just as Navy-mad as her father in his youth.

With about as much restraint about tackling Barrayaran patriarchy about that.

Also following mental scene came upon me:

"Ah, Ambassador Vorpatril, have you met the new Lieutenant assisting our military attache?"

"I have not?"

"She's over there somewhere, a young Miss by the name of Vorkorsigan, can you believe it?"

".....For fucks sake Gregor, WHY ME?"

edited 1st Jan '17 1:41:56 AM by 3of4

I don't think that Mrs. Bujold will be writing any more books in the series, much as I would love to see the kinds of stories you folks are dreaming up. As far as I know, she had nearly to be dragged kicking and screaming to write Cryoburn, let alone Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen.

Maybe her kids or someone else in the Baen stable of writers would be willing to take over but I doubt it.

Gentleman Jolie and the Red Queen would make a good natural stopping point for the series but I could also see her checking in on Ivan's misadventures, or Marks or the next generation. If she doesn't I wouldn't be all that disappointed though. She still has a couple of books left to do in the Chalion series, which I also love, and frankly I'd read anything she wrote.

edited 1st Jan '17 9:31:22 AM by tricksterson