MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
The law in the night
Yeah, there is porn in wikipedia if you're looking for the bits teaching about sex and reproduction.
Not exactly showing porn but a video showing how to use contraceptives or how the genitals work would be educational.
However whenever someone mentions sex, education and imagery you can bet someone will spin the facts and call legislators want your children to watch porn in the classroom.
Inter arma enim silent leges
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14597994540A49039500&page=1#10
Recommend that we move discussion into that thread.
Impossible Gender Forge
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I agree with you. I feel like a lot of problems faced involving sexism have elements coming from both sides of the proverbial fence, and I'm sorry my post failed to express that.
edited 23rd Jan '17 2:11:44 PM by Matues
Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm
Oh no doubt.
In a lot of media men are depicted as bein' the replaceable providers and protectors while women are depicted as indispensable creators of life and caregivers.
One is given agency and pays for it with his life. The other has no agency and waits for the men to come home.
Hunters and Gatherers essentially. Men still get the slightly better deal though which is likely why modern society generally like independent female characters that act with agency, but dislike/pity men who do not have it.
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
@Philosopher's Stone: If by Ryan Gosling you mean the incident I'm thinking about I'm pretty sure people either in this and/or the Women's Issues and/or the Sexism thread complained about that, because being thought of as pure and incorruptible is a Women's Issue.
I think the discussion about teaching kids sexuality got moved, so I'm gonna go to the other thread and post the rest of my comment there.
Wrong thread.
edited 24th Jan '17 1:41:51 AM by hellomoto
The Oh he deserved it mentality nowadays seems to appear a lot more for the double standard about female on male abuse. The scary part to me is that attitude seems to be prevalent in reality as well. Stories of women seriously hurting or damaging men for suspecting cheating or something even smaller then that are not to uncommon nowadays and they generally don't seem to get a fair sentence (they get less years then the flipped scenario) when they're caught either.
edited 6th Feb '17 3:16:59 PM by Wispy
A real bad hombre
The "zero sum game" theory of gender relations drives me crazy. I've come to hate it so much.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
"What you say isn't wrong in a lot of cases but you have to be careful about how you phrase that or it comes off as dismissive, painting it as really about discriminating against women, because it's a bit gynocentric and zero-sum gamey when sexism is a multilateral issue that affects both sides at the same time,"
pretty much, is not the first time I have read that women being abusive is a sub product of toxic masculinaty which make the idea that men create toxic behivor and women are just afect by it.
I have seen that some women tend to apply gender essensialim when it suit them as using Violence as something that belong to men, which let the idea that a women who murder have been corrupted somehow while a men just did what he always does.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Now, why the companies aren't interested despite being tested safe and effective? In an related note, why male reproductive issues are less discussed anywhere?
Oh, bother.
Rhetorical question, or genuine one?
Being a bit concerned that such a thing may facilitate the spread of STDs.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I am being genuine here. I had asked the possibilities of risking long term profits on the male contraception which has been debunked in this thread. By the logic of the answers that I get, said contraceptive should be selling like hotcakes, yet it is not happening, which is a headscratcher for me.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I skimmed the text and didn't really notice that part. Thank you for highlighting it, though I still get confused of what leads to said part.
edited 4th Apr '17 8:24:22 AM by murazrai
Oh, bother.
The article itself posits an explanation:
“The fact that the big companies are run by white, middle-aged males who have the same feeling-that they would never do it-plays a major role,” said Herjan Coelingh Bennink, a gynecology professor who helped develop the contraceptives Implanon and Cerazette as head of research and development in women’s health for Organon International from 1987 to 2000. “If those companies were run by women, it would be totally different.”
edited 4th Apr '17 8:20:11 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
The law in the night
Cultural differences and some resistances towards accepting male contraceptives.
I'd wager that there will be plenty of men who will think that any male contraceptive will sap them of their sex drive or masculinity, mostly by citing how the birth control pills can royally mess up with women hormones and behaviour.
Personally, I'd like to have access to male contraceptives, not only because condoms can fail and sadly not using condoms while putting all the onus on your sexual partner or becoming prone to baby traps is something I'd like to avoid.
Inter arma enim silent leges
@Septimus Heap I don't think such a concern is well-founded. STD transmission mostly involves people who don't want to use condoms, even tough they have sex with various partners. I doubt this method would impact STD transmission rates either way (though it would reduce pregnancy rates).
What about the people who will use this instead of condoms?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Condoms have 2 properties that set them apart from other commercialized contraceptives: they protect against ST Ds and they're not under exclusive female control. So there are 2 potential reasons for using condoms over (or in addition to) other methods: wanting to avoid ST Ds or not wanting to depend on your partner(s) using other means. I don't think anyone using condoms for the first reason would switch to this new method exclusively. That leaves people who use condoms exclusively for the second reason. To be frank, I think they are very few in numbers. Also, this method is long-term (it stops fertility until reversed), so it targets only men who are seriously committed to not have children.
Or maybe they just like the feeling. Thing is, this is all speculation - we have no idea why particular people chose to use any particular method.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
If you like the feeling of condoms, why stop using them?
The dark Mage of the playground
traditional procreation to increase population?
You're not going to use any contraception in that case.
The law in the night
Condoms can get expensive on the long run if you're sexually active.
Also, there are plenty of men who don't use condoms and engage unsafe sex because they don't like how they feel or they are afraid they will lose their hard on in the middle of the sex while using condoms.
I know a few who do that regularly.
Inter arma enim silent leges
These people are already not using condoms. A new contraception method won't change that. Septimus was concerned about people switching away from condoms.
edited 1st Dec '17 5:37:40 PM by PhilosopherStones
GIVE ME YOUR FACE