MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
Absolutely no relation to NLK
For kids? Yeah, absolutely. On the basis that they want to interact with the girl in question, but girls have cooties so bothering them is the only way to get their attention. It's a sentiment that runs the other way, too.
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Jupiterian Local
Teasing someone because you like them and that's the only socially acceptable way to interact with them is a thing. If both parties do it, it usually ends up as a Vitriolic Best Buds sort of thing. It only really causes problems when one party is legitimately hurt by the teasing, which can happen.
I wouldn't say that it's a thing that little boys do to little girls, though. It goes in both directions, depending on the individuals involved.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Children are just typically Tsundere, in general.
This is a signature.
Nameless Hero
Yeah, I'd say that kids of both genders do it, it's not something particular to dudes (not even young, little dudes). I remember being teased by girls who liked me, and I'd do the same to girls I liked.
The name's Axel. Wanna check out Aim 4 The Head, my Zombie Apocalypse spoof comic?: http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=138048
It seems like though, as a woman, that was the first thing people would tell me when I would complain of a boy bullying me.
"So are you going to go over there and show him how to be my friend then? If he likes me, why would he hurt me?"
"That's just what boys do!"
...
"Hey teacher, so-and-so slammed me in the lockers. I'm bleeding. You still think he likes me now?"
"What did you do to him!?"
Yep. That's how it went for me from grade school to high school. And true, some did want to bone me, but I am glad that Polarstern made the distinction that "fuckable" doesn't translate to "relationship".
I've said it before that children are segregated by gender at a very young age which builds a false wall of "I don't know what to do with them/how to talk with them" that only sets our kids up for failure later.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Nameless Hero
So I saw a poster discussing abuse victims killed by their partners. 17 men a year are killed by their partner or ex-partner in the UK. That's far less than women killed, but my point is that FINALLY abuse ads are acknowledging male victims alongside women and children. I've also seen in my town hall that a counselling service has been set up specifically for male victims. On the downside, a lot of abuse awareness ads still don't acknowledge male victims. There's abuse ads running right now in the UK on TV that only feature men abusing women. But times are changing, which is good. As a man whose had an abusive girlfriend in the past, this is quite heartwarming.
The name's Axel. Wanna check out Aim 4 The Head, my Zombie Apocalypse spoof comic?: http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=138048
A procrastination in of itself
Yeah help for men is starting to become more mainstream these days, which is really nice, I was so happy when I spotted CALM (Campaign Against Living Miserably) booklets at my uni.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Nameless Hero
Sorry if this counts as double-posting or posting again too soon, but I've read a leaflet by Reclaim, an abuse survivors group (formerly known as "The Women's Project" until recently). According to them, 7.3% of women and 5% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse from 2011-2012. This is a UK group, btw. So is the gender-disparity less noticeable outside of the USA? What's the difference in the gender ratio of DV victims in other countries outside the USA? 5% of men is a lot more than I expected and not that many less than women, hence why I'm asking.
The name's Axel. Wanna check out Aim 4 The Head, my Zombie Apocalypse spoof comic?: http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=138048
A nice butterfly
I am sorry for bringing up an ugly, stupid, stupid subject to resurface but...the Germanwings dude, Lubrecht...why are FSTDT creepies and MRA's making a martyr of him?
150 people died and these guys just see a way to fucking circlejerk about it?
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
A procrastination in of itself
Internet exstreamists who run on hate tend to do that when anything happens. I'm sure other hate groups are having similar reactions.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
A nice butterfly
But...but he was not even an "incel"...he had a girlfriend and they were going to marry...
That's like saying "William Wallace was a martyr for the Holocaust"
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Aszur, always remember this sentence: "If you are full of hate, bile, envy or prejudice, your enemy must be worse".
'you' being the Internet extermist (and, therefore, acknowledging said extremist's mentality/personality)
Absolutely no relation to NLK
How does that make sense?
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Basically, an extremist projects what they fear or hate in others under a given set of constructed traits. D'accord?
They might encounter said others who are actually nice, and respectful, and all that. But, using the extremist logic, said others must have something bad about them. And, when you put such deliberate ignorance and prejudice in the blender, hate, anger, and, most of all, demonization appears as the final result.
No matter how one is nice and good, if they have traits (physical, psychological, etc.) associated with someone the extremist don't like, the extremist will, nonetheless, project their problems, their hate, on said others as being obligatorily (is that the right word?) responsible for their plight/struggle.
Can you see the point now, or do I have to clarify further?
edited 30th Mar '15 4:51:11 PM by Quag15
A procrastination in of itself
X4 You're dealing with an internet hate group that are so obscure most outside the internet don't even know they existence. I suspect that the connection they are using is that he had mental health issues, as a cultural aversion to men seeking help for mental health issues contributing to them snapping and doing something horrible is a real thing.
edited 30th Mar '15 4:51:00 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Absolutely no relation to NLK
So it's "if you are full of bile etc., thenin your eyes your enemy must be worse"?
That's kinda the gist of it, yeah. I apply that quote to radfems, mysoginist mra's, religious fundies and others whenever they use the tragedy/plight/struggle of the other to score political or social points, since they can't see how damaging their ideas are or how they tend to emphasize their problems above everybody else's problems.
edited 30th Mar '15 4:58:51 PM by Quag15
Absolutely no relation to NLK
Hm, here's a question. Do you think all MRA's are inherently misogynistic?
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Party Crasher
How the heck does one even use a plane crash to further a gender-related agenda?
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
No. Hence why I said 'mysogynistic' mra's. I like to listen to valid points made by both feminists and mra's who actually have something to say and are perfectly respectful of both genders and/or sexes, and keep the extremists on either side out of it as much as possible.
edited 30th Mar '15 5:07:25 PM by Quag15
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
What do you mean with "inherently". As in actually thinks women are lesser than men? No. I think a lot of them are simply privilege-blind and self-absorbed and unconsiously looking for someone to blame.
A procrastination in of itself
X4 Define MRA. Also are we talking about as groups or as individuals?
edited 30th Mar '15 5:11:33 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Absolutely no relation to NLK
Well, I know little about MRA's, really. Most of it secondhand. But when I see the term being used mostly as an insult and way to discredit someone, it makes me wonder whether there is something to it or they're being misrepresented. I don't doubt that there are many misogynistic MRA's, maybe even the majority, but I'm asking whether you think a well-informed, tolerant and equality-minded person can self-identify as an MRA without contradiction.
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
An MRA movement wouldn't have to be inherently misogynistic, but there's little chance of a non-misogynistic one forming and achieving any mainstream success now. The term has been taken over by raving psychos and nobody in their right mind wants to be associated with that sort of unpleasantness. Worse yet the groups in question largely exist online, and websites are excellent echo chambers, allowing terrible ideas to fester and grow rather than being exposed to reality.
@Logo P
Like this
. You ignore all the evidence, assume that he was every bit as desperate as you when it comes to "romance", and then you blame it all on the women. Keep in mind that Vox Day and his ilk have blamed women for everything from the Fall of Rome to 9/11.
EDIT: Like this as well. Nothing makes the pathetic and petty feel tough like pretending an "awesome" mass murderer shared their issues.
@Aszur
Other hate groups have tried to claim this is all the fault of Islam. When you devote all your time to one ideology, be it MRA crap, Islamaphobia, or what have you, you tend to view everything through that lens.
edited 30th Mar '15 5:22:49 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
