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Imca (Veteran)
#8051: Apr 6th 2018 at 4:56:36 PM

The bigots were not the one dieing..... So while I agree with the sentiment, especialy since thats.... not all that suprising.....

In this case it is not really applicable.... the wrestler was dieing, not the ref.

[up] Yes, they have before.

As in, it has happened, and they did.

edited 6th Apr '18 4:57:12 PM by Imca

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#8052: Apr 20th 2018 at 12:58:27 PM

Admittedly this is off Facebook and I do not have a link, but opera singer Julie Fuchs was just fired by an opera company in Hamburg because it "violates their artistic integrity" to have a pregnant singer in the performance. (emphasis mine)

Today, I have an unexpected announcement to make: The Staatsoper Hamburg has unfortunately informed me just this week that the artistic integrity of the Jette Steckel production of ‘Die Zauberflöte’ cannot be maintained if the soprano singing Pamina is four months pregnant.

As you can imagine, I am very disappointed as I am feeling vocally and physically in top form. I am fully committed to fulfilling my contracts as planned and previously announced. I was very much looking forward to making my debut in this role, and singing for all of you in Hamburg. My apologies to those of you who already booked tickets. Whilst I respect the artistic vision of the theatre, I am saddened that we were not able to find a solution to accommodate this slight physical difference which does not negatively affect my vocal or artistic performance. It was my strong desire to find small production changes to make my appearance possible. As is the case with most women, in this second trimester of my pregnancy, I am happy to report that I am feeling full of energy and my good health has been confirmed by my doctors. I look forward to returning to the stage in June to sing Poppea at the Opernhaus Zürich.

At four months pregnant, she's not even showing, and clearly another opera company has no issues with her performing at six months.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#8053: Apr 20th 2018 at 6:01:05 PM

That kinda reminds me about that Idol thing where they are have to maintain a certain facade.

Here are two articles going more in depth with the darker aspects of Idol culture.

http://jpninfo.com/12837

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35368705

edited 20th Apr '18 6:05:11 PM by Kakuzan

Don't catch you slippin' now.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#8054: Apr 20th 2018 at 7:10:59 PM

The Idol thing is even worse, given that they aren't allowed to do anything beyond being the waifu to all their fans, something which is just not possible unless you're a abstract being.

Watch me destroying my country
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#8055: Jun 21st 2018 at 3:23:01 AM

So LessWrong has been shady and culty for years (Eliezer Yudkowsky’s incredibly creepy OKCupid profile was always a huge warning sign - yes, I’ve seen the original, so I can confirm that Reddit thread didn’t make it up), but things appear to have reached a head. Kathy Forth, the lady that the Effective Altruism community assigned to reduce their problem with sexual assault and background misogyny, committed suicide after being unable to deal with all the sexual assault and background misogyny, and it’s resulted in an increasing number of women coming forth about their own experiences within the LW/EA community. Jacqueline Bryk started things off with two pretty harrowing Twitter threads, but there’s also been a whole lot coming out of the Reddit thread on the topic. It’s pretty grim reading.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Bisected8 Tief girl with eartude from Her Hackette Cave (Primordial Chaos) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Tief girl with eartude
#8056: Jun 21st 2018 at 5:03:38 AM

What's LessWrong?

TV Tropes's No. 1 bread themed lesbian. she/her, fae/faer
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#8057: Jun 21st 2018 at 5:27:09 AM

An internet rationalist community that had a fair amount of crossover with this site a few years back. Most notorious for scamming Silicon Valley techbros with cons based around hostile AI and cryogenics, and for starting the genre of ‘rationalist fanfic’.

What's precedent ever done for us?
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#8058: Jun 21st 2018 at 5:10:18 PM

Everything you need to know about their attitude and general bearing comes from the fact that their name is taken from the phrase "I don't claim to be right, but I'm less wrong than you".

It's been fun.
Kayeka from Amsterdam (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8059: Jun 21st 2018 at 10:37:53 PM

Yeah, I always found that the term "rationalist" also implies a real sort of arrogance.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#8060: Jun 21st 2018 at 10:48:36 PM

Even Rationalwiki (a site with its own many issues) is somewhat critical of them.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong

Less Wrong is an embodiment of the sheer pretentious arrogance of Silicon Valley techbros.

edited 21st Jun '18 11:32:13 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Pachylad (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8061: Jun 22nd 2018 at 1:57:51 AM

[up] What particular issues does Rational Wiki have?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#8062: Jun 22nd 2018 at 2:01:32 AM

Eh, the same as pretty much any Wiki (including this one). The fact that just about anyone can edit things can lead to edit warring.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Pachylad (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8063: Jun 22nd 2018 at 2:27:17 AM

Huh, I was assuming, and given relevance to the current topic, similar problems of misogyny among their own wiki community, which I'd think to be out of place given my memory of it (at least what I can remember from 2013-15) being their strong support of liberal/leftist causes and/or at least sympathetic to feminist causes, a definite split from the current 'skeptic' community (see: Sargon of Akkad, thunderf00t)

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#8064: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:54:35 AM

They're definitely very pro-feminism, although much more towards the liberal feminist side of things, causing radical feminists to hate them. Likewise far leftists hate them because of their leaning towards social democracy, when apparently they used to be much more sympathetic to the far left, which said people accuse them of becoming cowards over. Even though their stance is more anti-tankie than anti-far left, as they're very clinical on the subject of far left ideologies instead of immediately shutting them down.

If I had my own issues with them it's that there's a Sandersnista faction who keeps spouting the usual $hillary nonsense while giving only token acknowledgement to Sanders' flaws.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#8065: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:56:32 AM

[up]This mirrors my experience, it's generally good but sadly there is some of the annoyingly common anti-HRC bias that can infest a number of left sites.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#8066: Jun 22nd 2018 at 12:42:34 PM

I have read some Rational Wiki articles and while is not as bad as Conservapedia (ugh, that trend of Left wingers being better than right wingers even when both are being bad is eternal), I just find it...smug. Like, really smug. I know that is not mean to be 100% serious but...still.

Watch me destroying my country
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#8068: Jun 29th 2018 at 6:21:48 AM

That is not surprising, there is always this sense of "being smarth of self aware means you can be smug about it", it happen before with the atheist comunity which explain why many went to the alt right, since they feed their pretentions of trolling.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#8069: Jul 1st 2018 at 9:21:22 AM

The thing about prosecuting someone for something is that you have to be sure. Innocent until proven guilty goes both ways: Neither not sure whether the rape happened nor whether the accusation was false should lead to a guilty verdict. A case where the accused is acquitted isn't automatically proof of innocence (although proof of innocence automatically leads to acquittal); it's proof that guilt is not certain. Well, that's how it should work, if that makes sense.

Check out my fanfiction!
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#8070: Jul 3rd 2018 at 11:39:58 AM

Mens' Rights Activists are fighting back against the scourge of feminist networking by suing women-only groups designed to help women succeed in business. And in far too many cases, the MRA is winning. Full article text 

The rise of women-focused organizations promoting co-working, workplace savviness, and old-fashioned networking is confronting a new backlash: lawsuits from men who say they are being unfairly excluded.

Yale University and the University of Southern California are under investigation by the Department of Education for programs and scholarships for women. An organization to get more women on the golf course—long a bastion of male power and a frequent locale for business deals—was sold and shut down after settling with a plaintiff for holding women-only events. The head of Chic CEO, an organization that hosted online resources for women starting their own businesses, downsized her company after settling a lawsuit alleging the group excluded men from networking events. And the Wing, an exclusive all-women co-working and social space, is under investigation by the New York City Commission on Human Rights for gender discrimination.

The most recent women’s empowerment organization to go public about getting hit with a gender-discrimination lawsuit is Ladies Get Paid, a for-profit organization that holds networking events and classes on negotiating salaries and raises, managing money, and building confidence. After two men were denied entry to two women-only Ladies Get Paid events in August and September 2017 in San Diego and Los Angeles, respectively, they filed two lawsuits under the California’s Unruh Civil Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, and other protected characteristics.

Claire Wasserman, the director and founder of Ladies Get Paid, believes it was the “cheeky” language and smiley face she used on the Eventbrite invitation to their August event that attracted the ire of the plaintiffs. The invite said: “Bring friends—the more the merrier :) Female-identifying, non-binary folks are welcome. Sorry, guys!” Alfred Rava, the attorney in both suits, said it was Rich Allison, one of the plaintiffs, who brought the advertisement to him, along with his sex discrimination claim. “It definitely caught my eye that a supposedly pro-diversity business such as LGP would be so stupid, in the 21st century in the progressive state of California, to actually kick men out of this event just like LGP promised or threatened to do in its advertisement,” Rava wrote in an email to Slate.

Targeting women’s empowerment events is an abuse of the law and part of the larger attack on the civil rights of vulnerable people that the Unruh Act was designed to protect, said Elizabeth Kristen, director of Gender Equity and LGBT Rights Program at Legal Aid at Work and an expert on gender discrimination. “They are using the Unruh Act as a sword.” And Kristen says not all of these lawsuits are the same.

Kristen sees a strong distinction between businesses running gender-specific promotions as a way to drum up business (like a ladies’ night drink special) and the women-focused business, networking, and empowerment events and programs, where there is a legitimate policy, rather than commercial, interest in excluding men. She argues that had Ladies Get Paid and similar women business and networking events had the resources to go to trial, they’d have California case law on their side to win.

Specifically: In a decision upholding a Mother’s Day special, a California appeals court declared discrimination under Unruh is present only where the policy or action “emphasizes irrelevant differences between men and women or perpetuates stereotypes.”

This raises the question of what those “relevant” differences between men and women might be.

In a decision upholding the Trump National Golf Course discount for women during Breast Cancer Awareness Month, the court held that the golf course was within its right to do so: The “objective of the [Unruh] Act is to prohibit businesses from engaging in unreasonable, arbitrary or invidious discrimination.” As Kristen notes, the law doesn’t prohibit businesses from “drawing distinctions” among different people—as long as those distinctions are “reasonable” rather than arbitrary. For a women’s-only breast cancer promotion, the court found the golf course “offered undisputed evidence to show that the vast majority of breast cancer sufferers are women, with men comprising less than one percent of those annually diagnosed with breast cancer.” In other words, the reason for distinguishing between men and women in this case was supported by evidence and was nonarbitrary. It also refers to other court of appeals cases that find such practices are “nonarbitrary” where a “strong public policy exists” to support it—in that case, a policy of raising breast cancer awareness.

Here’s how this case law could help not only Ladies Get Paid, but other organizations, whether for-profit or nonprofit, looking to support women in overcoming demonstrable disadvantages: There are myriad reasons to conduct events just for women about work, wages, business and negotiation, giving credence to the “strong public policy” requirement in California case law. Women are more likely to invest in each other’s ventures, and more likely to succeed when backed by other women. Women get paid more at work when surrounded by other women. Women are more likely to speak up and less likely to be interrupted in women-only situations.

By suing organizations that purport to close the wage gap or increase women’s representation at the top ranks of businesses—two areas where research and real-time data show women lag behind—such efforts would likely widen, rather than decrease, gender inequality. “Ladies’ night” specials are rooted in stereotypes; by contrast, women-only networking is rooted in empirical reality about the benefits of women-only workplaces.

Chris Dolan, owner of the Dolan Law Firm in San Francisco, and a well-known civil rights attorney who has brought hundreds of cases regarding gender discrimination including violations of the Unruh Act, agrees the Unruh Act was designed to end barriers and discrimination that disadvantaged individuals because of “immutable characteristics”—i.e., race, sex, national origin, age, disability. Dolan says the relevant distinction when it comes to such lawsuits is between using the Unruh Act to disrupt women’s empowerment organizations and using it to “interdict businesses” which advantage women while excluding men. However, Dolan noted that LGP’s case would be even stronger as an association or not-for-profit group rather than a for-profit organization. This would strengthen their case that their purpose in having policies that treat men and women differently is women’s empowerment and closing the wage gap, not collecting profits.

While it’s impossible to say for certain what the outcome of a trial would have been, it was likely too costly for LGP to risk making their case. “If you are a young company, you are not going to test the merits. You are going to wind up paying the plaintiff to go away,” says Megan Cesare-Eastman, the lawyer who represented Ladies Get Paid. California has a one-sided fee provision for prevailing plaintiffs in civil litigation: Had Ladies Get Paid gone to court and lost, the group would’ve had to pay all associated legal fees. That bill could have run into the six figures—which likely would have sunk an organization with just two full-time employees. And as a for-profit organization, Wasserman says it was difficult to find pro bono representation.

“I get that women’s organizations with limited resources can’t risk taking these cases to court,” said Kristen. “But if there isn’t anyone willing to stand up to these bullies, it is going to undermine our ability to enhance and protect civil rights in these states.”

In the future, Kristen hopes feminist organizers targeted by men or men’s rights organizations will band together before settling. “Women have not had the resources to stand and fight,” said Kristen. “If women could find some way to get lawyers to represent them to expand and explain this law further, we could establish that these kind of women’s empowerment events in particular do not violate the Unruh Act.”

Ladies Get Paid has crowdsourced the money to defray legal costs associated with the settlement, and they’ve raised over $100,000 from nearly 2,000 individual donors. If future groups choose to fight back, there’s reason to believe they’ll find plenty of support, financial and otherwise.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#8071: Jul 3rd 2018 at 11:52:15 AM

[up] That sounds too similar to the protest in Japan when a group of douchebags protest the women-only train car for discriminating against and excluding them.

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
Murataku Fits in Heavy's pocket! from Straya Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Fits in Heavy's pocket!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#8073: Jul 3rd 2018 at 4:52:53 PM

I’ve seen this come up before, it is generally anti-feminist groups who calls themselves MR As that bring such lawsuits. Note how they target specifically groups trying to build women up, they’d get sympathy from me if they say targeted nightclubs with constant gender discrimination policies, or even found sympathetic people to sue on behalf of (take the breast cancer discount, if a male breast cancer suffered was denied it I’d be all for the lawsuit, because anyone who denies a breast cancer suffered a discount because they’re the ‘wrong’ gender is an asshole), but that’s not how they operate, they’re specifically trying to bring down women empowerment groups.

The only valid thing in there is that it’s kinda shady for these groups to be for-profit, but let’s not for a moment pretend that the people behind the lawsuits would be happy if the groups switch to being non-profit.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Murataku Fits in Heavy's pocket! from Straya Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Fits in Heavy's pocket!
#8074: Jul 3rd 2018 at 4:58:45 PM

[up] Fair enough. I'm against any and all gender discrimination in general, but I'd probably take more offense to the situations you described than something like this too.

The last thing you hear before an unstoppable juggernaut bisects you with a minigun.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#8075: Jul 3rd 2018 at 5:21:41 PM

Thing is the programs are designed to give women a much needed helping hand addressing issues that women face, that’s much more difficult to do if men are present and also not something men gain anything from being there for.

Personally for seminars and stuff I’d like to say let the men just sit in and listen, but the men who try and turn up to these things aren’t there to listen, they’re there to disrupt and waste the funds of the organisation.

Let’s use another example, there’s an organisation in my area that provides support to adult with mental health disabilities, should someone without such a disability be able to demand that the organisation give them support or be shut down? No. Now they might well have an argument to be made that the government has a duty to also provide a service that provides them with support, but that’s an argument for an expansion of service, to a reduction.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

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