Sexism

There's a little bit of sense in it in terms of societal pressures have set up such a thing, but it does not make it inevitable, evolved, right, or universal. It's what's behind a lot of PUA culture as well, which is why those men paradoxically hate women that enjoy sex.

A brighter future for a darker age.

I wonder what's their opinion on men who 'sell' sex and women who 'buy' sex... In fact, it's best not to know.

edited 27th Mar '15 3:10:33 PM by Quag15

Even if you buy totally into the sex-as-commodity thing, then slut-shaming would still be totally irational. Even more so actually. They're basically complaining that someone is giving them free stuff. Who does that?

Well, not free, if we're gonna consider the Economics' big mantra: 'There are no free lunches'.

I concur, nonetheless.

Well in this case it would be the woman "paying" for the sex when she refuses to get payed for it. She'd be running a charity so to speak.

Edit: How does this view explain homosexual people? Who pays whom for what with what?

edited 27th Mar '15 3:39:19 PM by Antiteilchen

"which is why those men paradoxically hate women that enjoy sex."

I've been in the PUA community for years, and I've never seen this. What could possibly be more exciting than a woman who enjoys the whole thing with you? What's more satisfying than having her climax. Again. Again. Again. And again! Holy fuck, that's awesome!

Conversely, there's nothing more frustrating than one that isn't enjoying herself. Makes one self-conscious and just, like, ugh, what am I even here for?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

That's true enough.

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Speaking as a virgin I actually generally prefer women who show an interest in the act rather then "delicate flowers" who never mention it.

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Social Justice Bullies: The Authoritarianism of Millennial Social Justice

What most shocked me about this article is that it phrases problems that I hadn't dared to think about out loud; now that they've been spoken out and summarized, I feel somehow vindicated in having that general sense of concern and distaste that I've been carrying for years now.

edited 19th Apr '15 5:19:32 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

And there's something else he's missing, yet implicit the in the article — the whole movement's Americentrism.

It's like the rest of the world doesn't exist, or if it does, it's offensive in of itself.

edited 19th Apr '15 5:51:51 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

Well, I wouldn't go that far, but, yeah, it does seem remarkably insular and US-centered. Why's that?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Not being an American, I'm not sure, but I'm sure American Exceptionalism (and lack of non-US focused education) has something to do with it. Doesn't do the image of their country abroad any favours — mind you, I wonder if the same attitudes^note  Applied elsewhere, of course are somehow involved^note  Or the reaction to them? with the recent rise in Nationalism?

Keep Rolling On

while I agree with many points I'd argue that its not a thing all SJ people do. I think the greater issue is that the broader group is unwilling to engage and call out the radical parts either out of fear of argument or because they don't want to "help the other side"

Basically, the radical SJW's are SJ's TEA Party.

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It makes a lot of good points, but I'm unsure of the focus on the reaction to rape accusations, it comes down to the separation of personal and journalistic.

On a personal level accepting people at their word kinda does make sense, it's a personal judgement call. However for a journalist it's different, journalists need to verify and fact check their stories because they are trusted and speak with authority. I suspect that that's part of where the divide comes in, folks go in looking at it from a personal level and not a journalistic one.

I think a better focus would have been on the guilt by association stuff, where if one identifies as part of a group that has exstreamist elements a person is declared to be responsible for those elements and a supporter of them even if the only thing that connects them is completely unrelated to the exstreamist views.

Also the comment on "The millennial social justice advocate views this as an insidious question that results from sexism against women and is corroborated, they feel, by a statistically insignificant rate of false rape accusations."

Seems to make light of the fact that false rape accusations are statistically insignificant.

Sure it's not all people fighting for social justice, but online it does seem to be a large amount of people who identify as SJ Ws, particularly amongst certain segments of online media. Now once you get offline people tend to wonder what the hell we're talking about, but online such people are a strong voice. It's one of those weird internet culture things (I still wish the the internet culture thread was opened, it could have been a fun discussion).

edited 19th Apr '15 6:45:26 AM by Silasw

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

The thing about cultural values is that they vary by culture. If the online Social Justice community seems like a lot of Americans talking about American problems, then that community has a lot of Americans talking about American problems, ie problems Americans are most familiar with. While I do agree that Americans have a problem with Americentrism, calling that an example seems like a roundabout way of saying, "My culture doesn't have X problem, therefore your argument is invalid."

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More like "what might work in America, might not work outside it", and trust those the ground to offer suggestions and improvements.

Keep Rolling On

It's not that it's Americans talking about American problems, it's Americans taking American problems and system and acting as if that's the global system, even when talking to people from outside of the US.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

Lol, 3 out of 5 of those articles he linked to "debunk" the wage gap were written by CH Sommers.

There are legitimate ways social justice communities can be abused to hurt people that I think I've become a little more aware of that, but that article looks pretty bad.

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The classic recent example is the Benjanun Sriduangkaew scandal, in which an up-and-coming sci-fi author turned out to also be a notorious cyberbully who'd used a combination of cult tactics and social-justice language as weapons in her campaigns. She'd destroyed Internet communities and sabotaged other up-and-coming authors (especially other non-white women), and managed to retain a degree of support in the sci-fi community by integrating herself in its more liberal side and punching up at genuinely deserving targets, drawing out the awful underbelly of sci-fi fandom, often enough to disguise the true pattern of her actions. When the whole thing came out, it was a total clusterfuck, as her author friends defended what turned out to be rampant bullying, misogyny, and racism on her part, and the genuinely bad people she'd gone after used her actions as an excuse to give her the full Anita Sarkeesian treatment and attack social-justice leanings in speculative fiction. Basically, everyone lost.

Here's an overview for a starter.

What's precedent ever done for us?

That, basically.

I think it's telling when online culture has gone out of its way to make ostentatious use of terms like "social justice" and "anti-racist" either in earnest or as pejorative terms. It's one of the reasons why I don't like using terms like "social justice community" because that should be (pardon my Hume's Guillotine), you know, most human beings. That's really what a lot of ideologies and political movements are on a nuclear level. Feminism, for example, is at its core saying a lot of things that should be really obvious but aren't for a variety of reasons.

These terms get paraded, misused and perjorated also because they are based on ideology and as such, cannot be strictly regarded as facts. We "know" (note the scare quotes) that sexism is bad, but it's still a matter of values rather than Newtonian application of reality. Because it's not a hard scientific fact that sexism is bad, and because of that lack of absolute factual basis, you end up with a lot of very sexist people who have done a great job convincing themselves that they're anything but.

That article is rhetorically impressive (i.e. it uses clever language to make its thesis sound good), but it's actually flimsy in its conclusions.

edited 19th Apr '15 9:40:49 AM by Aprilla

Yeah, that article was garbage.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

The oversimplification of the themes in 1984 isn't helping, either. I swear, that book is one of the most misquoted and misappropriated works of literature ever written.

I find that to be true for the majority of articles on the topic. People love to say what they think about topics, but aren't nearly as good at reaching conclusions from it.

I wonder if any book beats The Bible in that.

edited 19th Apr '15 9:53:23 AM by AnotherDuck

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If I understand correctly, the author is finishing a degree in teaching and literature, so this really shouldn't be a problem for him at this point in his academic career. Speaking from experience.

edited 19th Apr '15 9:55:14 AM by Aprilla