The Latin America thread (VE, BR, AR, CU, MX...)

Well, there's always Churrascaria...

The food is good but every place don't have good food somehow? I heard that even the Redneck Roadkill can be amazingly good.

Thinking about Latinoamerica and how backwards we are even compared to USA, the place that everyone here critique all the time makes me sad.

edited 6th Apr '18 9:15:46 AM by KazuyaProta

I mean, I'm sure the culture has plenty of good things.

If you're asking why Latin American politics is such a steaming pile of shit...

Obviously I'm talking about politics.

Albeit, Culture really matters if it don't get us safety to walk in the streets?

I like mock Nordic Countries calling them "the white utopia" because the sheer irony that the most leftist/liberal/progressive countries are the ones with a white majority but I'm sure that objetively they are superior to my Nation. Not by racial reasons (obviously) but they're still superior.

edited 6th Apr '18 9:19:50 AM by KazuyaProta

I just think it's important to remember the good things in culture. Every country has absolutely amazing and unique culture that can't be found anywhere else. Which is what makes it especially frustrating when politics screws things up and keeps people from sharing it.

As for why Latin American politics are crap...eh, you'd probably be more informed about that than I am. But if I have to guess, I'd say it's at least partly due to a long history of colonialism followed by neofascist rightwing dictators backed by the USA as part of their pissing contest against the Soviets followed by poorly vetted incompetent and corrupt leftwingers...

edited 6th Apr '18 9:20:21 AM by M84

But even when they're gone we're still stuck on those issues. Plus our own issues that USA can't be blamed.

I'm saying that the history of shitty exploitation, tyranny, and corruption has had a lasting impact on Latin American politics. It takes a lot of time and effort to heal from that sort of damage.

edited 6th Apr '18 9:23:06 AM by M84

I imagine that.

It just feels...weird. We have to wait and work a lot before we can start the Dick measuring contest of "Look at how unironically great is my country" without looking ridiculous.

Is bizarre being part from a culture where the majority group is actually a target of discrimination. And belonging to said group

I imagine it's a lot like how black Africans felt in the apartheid era.

And it's understandable that Latin America can't get to the nation dick waving contests yet. You're still recovering from having colonial powers crushing your nuts in the past.

edited 6th Apr '18 9:37:55 AM by M84

Nah. It's as bad (thankfully). Albeit, the sheer irony that in the last years, well...

1) We got freaking Communist Socialist Maoist Terrorists killing farmers and rural folks

2) Our First non white President ordered sterilization against andeans

There almost 200 years. That's a decent amount of time to try things such as Gay rights or at least Something.

edited 6th Apr '18 11:10:05 AM by KazuyaProta

Latin America's shitty politics were born out of our colonization process and at the time, the colonizers weren't exactly known for, you know, any bit interest in being focused on checks and balances, strong institutions and having a functional government at home.

Let alone in the colonies, which were mostly made for mineral and agricultural exploitation and not colonizing, so they had even less effort in having anything resembling a functional government that was interested in doing anything but collect taxes and imports.

Yeah, is fault of colonization.

Albeit that don't change how shitty it feels. Even your failures aren't us (albeit, given our relative independence, they actually ARE).

Add that the only two racially Native presidents of my country are in cases of corruption and it feels even worse.

I can't avoid thinking if Latin America would have become a good region if the colonization never started.

It's not all that productive to wonder what could have been. I certainly don't spend too much time pondering what China would be like today if Chiang Kai-shek had kicked Mao's ass. Though I should note that Kai-shek was also a right prick.

edited 6th Apr '18 11:11:37 AM by M84

As much as I lean towards the view that China would be better off under the Nationalists in several ways, I will definitely agree with you that Chiang was a right and utter prick to the Taiwanese and they have many good reasons to remove his statues and denounce him.

A popular alternate history scenario is that China would have ended up partitioned with a PRC-controlled North (with Manchuria and Xinjiang under their control) and the rest of the South (and Taiwan) ruled by the Nationalists. What do you think of that? I'm guessing that border clashes would continue on a massive scale until both autocrats died.

edited 6th Apr '18 11:38:54 AM by TheWildWestPyro

Such a discussion, interesting though it might be, would be better suited for the Official China thread. Don't want to derail the Latin America thread.

But as for that idea...it seems like it'd be the Koreas on an even larger scale.

edited 6th Apr '18 11:40:19 AM by M84

Then I'll move it there. I don't want to derail this one.

edited 6th Apr '18 12:56:43 PM by TheWildWestPyro

To drop my cents into the discussion, yeah, the Viceroyalties set us back in self-governing and it didn't helped that Latin America jumped on democracy before we were ready to do it properly (which lead to the many warlords that vied for the position of president).

That said @Kazuya, I'm not sure that if the Spaniards didn't come here we would be better off right now, in fact, I dread the contrary would have happened since the European colonization got worse across the centuries.

To me, it's a very dark irony that because Spain and Portugal made us enter the Western world with their conquests in the Early Modern Period, our countries were in a way spared of the even more racist Colonialism of the Eighteenth Century and the subsequent problems that now plague Africa.

Ja! Neither Trump or Maduro will come to Summit of the Americans.

Those wonderful men wouldn't come to such a important event in my own country.

This is something I have told M84 plenty of time but I find facisnating how Trump and Maduro are so alike in behivor and personality, is like look a mirror universe self.

"And it's understandable that Latin America can't get to the nation dick waving contests yet."

How but we do have it...in who is the worst president, really almost all mexican friend I have find insulting to said Maduro is worst that peña nieto.

We take a lot of pride in having shitty leaders.

Are we sure that Trump isn't just the White Skin of Maduro's?

He took all the money to pay that Skin American AU DLC

I think he was the ultimate plan of Chavez to fuck the US: use is galatic power to rise incompent buffon to the US and damage them internally, and it works.

Unfortunally he test it here first and he dies before he could get rid of itit.

Hey, it made more sense that everything so far.

I’ll admit that there was something darkly cathartic in seeing the USA being lead by such a poor excuse of a president after all the meddling it did to us in the last century; of course this doesn’t mean that I have no sympathy for the usonians who are getting shafted by Trump’s attempts at managing their country.

Speaking of them, should we discuss about the deal with the dreamers who are going to be sent back here? I mean, they are going to be a much more diverse wave of inmigration in the region and it’s likely there’s going to be more trouble ahead than with the venezuelans since some don’t even speak spanish.

In my case, I find hilarious and somewhat amusing to see so many people saying donald trump was the worst thing in US history, he will be a dictator and many other thing because it show how uncostume they are to the populist that are a daily part of Latin america since is inception, specially when their political mechanism have made them fair waaaaaay better that any of us got.

Is a sort of first world privilage of the sort.

I'm taking a history class on Modern Latin America in college. Considering all the regimes the US propped up there, it is darkly karmic in a way.

I mean, I learned about Operation Condor before college, but not about all the other regimes.

He is not as bad as General Asshole/Pinochet, I will admit. Trump's main thing is that he isn't very murderous, but rather a total idiot.

edited 11th Apr '18 9:45:15 AM by TheWildWestPyro

And let’s not forget about the Monroe Doctrine, the deal with Panama, Post-Spain Cuba and the War with Mexico, which in hindsight is a case of complete hypocrisy when you consider that the whole thing started because of some illegal white immigrants went to Texas became the force behind its secession.