Complaining: Cardboard Obstacle

I think we do have the the super-trope. Removable obstacles you have to go find thing for are one of the defining characteristic of Metroidvania.

Metroidvania is for 2D platform games; anyway, not all games with removable obstacles fall in the same genre. I don't think we have the supertrope, currently.

Edit: No, I'm wrong! It's You Must Be This Tall to Enter. There we go.

edited 27th May '12 12:29:17 AM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

We might have to do something with You Must Be This Tall to Enter later. 14 wicks and 8 inbounds is rather low for something so ubiquitous.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

If that's a supertrope for this one, then it's also a supertrope for Broken Bridge, Beef Gate, and Cash Gate. And maybe it could use a better name.

Egad, You Must Be This Tall to Enter is a horrible, horrible name.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

I can start a TRS thread on that trope, on how it can mean 2 different things.

Alright, I made another thread for You Must Be This Tall to Enter, so if you want to discuss that, you can do it there. Let's get back to what to do about Cardboard Obstacle.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

I'm bumping this thread because its supertrope just got resolved in another TRS thread. For those who don't feel like reading the whole thread, the problems with this trope basically amount to that it is Ability Required to Proceed but done badly. It seems to me that our options are either to try and remake it into something more objective (which still leaves us with the problem of the trope being The Same But More Specific) or cutting it outright. I'm leaning towards cutting myself, but it obviously isn't my decision.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

As I mentioned before, the only real trope I see here that's not just complaining is Dungeon Specific Item. Or ability. It's where an item only has use in the dungeon it's found. Or level. Either way, the point is that as soon as you change location, you have no use left for the item.

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

I don't see what's wrong with my explanation back at the beginning of the thread. I stand by this as a trope.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I don't see how that's significant, though. It's not a game mechanic, and I don't see how it's a trope. It's just an item you get to use more than at one place, which to me feels more standard than the opposite (which is what I suggested as a trope).

That could be something like getting the High Jump Boots in one dungeon, and the next one, which you can't get to before getting to the first one because getting there involves high jumps, also has high jumps. In this case, having further use for the item will (probably) benefit dungeon design, as you can do so a little more freely. Of course, you also need to check for obvious unintended short cuts.

It could also be something like bombs, which may or may not be limited in storage. Just noticing where you can use them can be a challenge in itself.

Then there's when sequence breaking involved, where further obstacles can limit that. But in those games, how do you know it really is impossible to get that far without getting the item?

It also doesn't take skill into account. Does using the item take any skill at all? Is it fun using the item?

My point is, there are so many reasons to have further obstacles that it doesn't fit one trope. Just having further obstacles is chairs the way I see it. There's no significance to it, beyond the obstacle itself. They're not necessarily pointless.

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

Well it looks like a trope to me, and it's got enough examples for it.

It's also not just an item you can use in more than one place because, well, for example, take Pokemon Gold And Silver. There's an area in the first town that you can only access by Surfing, some shortcuts and hidden areas you can only access with Cut, and a cave near the beginning that you need Flash to light up. Later in the game you get access to those abilities, and then you can come back and use them in the earlier area. That's definitely an ability you use in more than one place, but definitely not a Cardboard Obstacle.

edited 12th Jun '12 9:55:10 AM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Either way, the page cannot be left as is. If we decide to go the route you suggest, then we would still need to rename the trope (something like Redundant Obstacle). The current name is rather obtuse.

Should I make a crowner? It looks like we're having a bit of a problem reaching a consensus as to what we should do with this.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

"Cardboard" has good connotations for the trope. It evokes a memorable image. I don't think it's obtuse. Just needs some tightening up on the description and probably a split.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Does it count if you have to use skill to get past the obstacle? Or if you have to have to actually notice where to use the item? In those cases, it's not just a Cardboard Obstacle, since even if you do have the item, the solution is not just given to you. Or what if there was a spiderweb you had to burn before, but this time it's a wooden door?

What about perishables? Stuff like bombs in Zelda games are limited. Fallout 3 has lockpicks. Does that count?

Does it matter if the item is usable in itself, outside said obstacle?

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

I still don't think "a blocked route has more than one obstacle in it" is a trope. You should expect a landslide to put more than one boulder in a mountain pass, giant spiders to weave more than one web in their lair and so on. It doesn't suddenly become a trope just by adding "in videogames" at the end.

Sounds like Downplayed or Justified.

I dunno, I don't recall playing a game where they did stuff like that. It probably counts.

Depends how limited your resources are. In The Legend Of Zelda it just means you have to backtrack a little to find more bombs. In The Binding Of Isaac, if you run out of bombs, there's no way to get more—you have X bombs, and if you run out, you just won't be able to access that secret, period. My gut says the former is an example and the latter is not.

Probably not.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

That feels a little too fuzzy for a proper trope.

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

Clocking due to lack of activity.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Locking up.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.