Game Of Thrones -- Book Spoiler Free Thread

Maybe the show will make it up to him. If Davos survives and returns home, he can find out that he left his wife pregnant and finds a grown up 2 year old waiting for him.

He is functionnally doing that by trying to get Jon back and fighting against the idiots with Skewed Priorities who took him down. Especially since, now that there isn't a House Baratheon to speak of, he has no Lord to go back to.

I assume that his wife being still alive is the only reason he does not tell the Oath straight away.

I can imagine Ser Davos lapsing back to the smuggler's life like Han Solo in The Force Awakens if his prospects don't improve.

Very much possible, but I don't think it will happen before the WW's issue is settled. If he is still alive at the end of the show (which I hope but do not expect), then I half expect him to indeed go back to smuggling because he is so fed up with the higher ups and their stupidity. He might even get into a partnership with Salladhor Saan.

It depends on how much the world changes at the end of that. I do think that Martin intends Davos to survive to the end. Not sure about the show. His prominence in the promotion of this season makes me feel that he'll be one of the victims at the end battle.

If Davos survives till the finale in a new changed Westeros where much and more would have changed in the pre-war feudal structure, I can see Davos becoming a major figure in the new order. Say Hand of the King or the equivalent of that in the Stormlands.

I was trying to think... if Jon wasn't brought back, who would become the new Lord Commander? The clear leader of the loyalist forces isn't even a brother, he's an outsider. Edd? Seems the most likely candidate, but he's apparently not respected In-Universe.

I know you're talking about the immediate future, but just because this occurred to me recently: in the end I reckon it'll be Jorah Mormont. Fulfilling his father's dying wish Following in his father's footsteps, forsaking marriage, putting his ignoble past behind him and serving as the ultimate protector of his beloved Queen's realm. What more poetic destiny could he want than that?

edited 4th May '16 6:37:10 AM by johnnye

Alliser Thorne would probably take over.

Dolorous Edd would likely be Acting Lord Commander until they managed to reestructure the Night's Watch enough for an ellection.

I mean now that Thorne is re-mutinyed. Unless you think he'll still be Lord Commander. Because that would... well, it'd be a twist. I don't think anyone would see it coming.

I'd agree except for the fact he's a Dead Man Walking. It'd be a perfect end to his arc, though. Following his father's footsteps, taking a position as far away from Dany as humanly possible, and swearing off women altogether. Unless there's a plot twists where he just has a rash from wearing that bandanna on his wrist it just can't work out, though.

edited 4th May '16 7:40:16 AM by Larkmarn

Well the Night's Watch oaths say, "it will not end until my death" so if Jon Snow returns then he's fulfilled his obligations to the NW and is a free man. That means fresh elections. But the show won't deal with those issues too much I think. I.E. what happens to the NW as an institution if it continues and so on. It takes too much screentime away.

The main thing is the Wildlings and Jon Snow will have to march south away from Castle Black. So I think what will happen is that the Northern Houses who are anti-Wildling (Such as the Umbers) will hate the Wildling incursion. I can see Ser Alliser and Olly Chekhov escaping from jail and warning the North that "The Wildlings are coming! The Wildlings are coming!" and they will paint Jon Snow as a new King Beyond the Wall and a traitor. So basically Jon Snow will have to upturn and revolutionize the North in favor of a Wildling friendly kingdom to better defend it against the White Walkers.

From Jon's perspective it's justified. These houses did nothing when Mormont sent word about the White Walkers, did nothing when they kept begging for more men and supplies, and the one guy who did listen, Stannis got killed by the same people after turning down all his calls for support against the Boltons. And they clutch their pearls about "Oh those evil Wildings coming south." So he's like that's it, I am going to take over the North and bring the Wildlings south because that is literally the only option I have to do my job. So in effect, the Night's Watch will end as an institution and become a revolutionary organization. To better their odds, they will have Sansa getting men and supplies and legitimacy as in the Starks are back and thissa time itsa personale.

As for Jorah joining the NW, he has Grayscale, he's a dead man walking.

edited 4th May '16 7:28:47 AM by JulianLapostat

So, candidates include Alliser Thorne, Dolorous Edd and... uh, can anyone even name any other brothers who are named in the show and still alive? Off the top of your heads.

Who's the other candidate who stands against Jon and Alliser in the election? Othell Yarwyck?

Oh, never mind, looked him up and he's one of the mutineers too.

Honestly, it'd be somewhat illogical if Thorne lost an election. He has had enough time to cement his leadership and the reasoning for his mutiny, and has some loyalists. "The other guy has a bigger stick" isn't really a good reason to vote against someone in a blind election.

Firstly, Alliser Thorne will be executed for mutiny...just like those rapists at Craster's Keep in Season 4. Karl Fookin Gin Alley Tanner and Rast. Assassinating the previous LC invalidates you from standing for election...I mean obviously. It's like Wilkes Booth or Lee Oswald running for presidency if they survived.

The question is if Thorne dies next episode or somehow escapes and heads South...maybe his friends on the inside spring him loose. I think Olly Chekhov will last till Ep 9's big battle.

Here's the vid again:

Seems the link was broken before. Still amazing.

As I said, I rec you guys watch it.

;-;

edited 4th May '16 9:15:46 AM by MadSkillz

The oath also says "I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come." Jon's life is still pledged to the Night's Watch.

I don't expect there to be a Night's Watch when the series is over, as the war with the White Walkers and the conflict with the Wildlings will probably both be over by then.

I agree with Tompa.

Jon's death shouldn't be some get out of jail card.

And that's not how GRRM writes usually.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

That is a pretty explicit loophole worked in cleverly.

Anyway, Jon Snow not being part of the Night's Watch doesn't mean he won't defend the realm from the White Walkers, nor does it mean that it paves the road ahead for the Iron Throne or get married or whatever...It frees him from the rules and restrictions of the Night's Watch as an institution. He's not going to say the NW won't march on Winterfell because of neutrality anymore. He's not going to ignore the Game of Thrones because of his committments.

Jon Snow has always been bound by stuff: his bastardy, his past, his missing mother, Winterfell, the NW oaths...now he'll be free of them all.

@Julian Well, no, the NW still has to remain neutral as they're not supposed to get involved in political affairs and unless he resigns as Lord Commander so will he unless he breaks his oath.

And considering that the next episode is titled Oath-Breaker, it seems that's the route they may want to go.

Well it's set up from last season that this is what he will do. In S5, Davos and Jon discuss the North. Jon sticks to commanding the Night's Watch but Davos tells him that the Night's Watch can't protect the realm and leave the North to rot under the Boltons at the same time. It's incompatible. The Boltons will never rescue the Night's Watch nor help them.

So in order to save the realm from the White Walkers, Jon will have to conquer the North...either under Sansa or himself. Otherwise, to paraphrase a line from Watchmen Jon Snow can be the last honorable man on the frozen wastes of the world, sticking to his code long after the world is destroyed.

Honestly, it'd be somewhat illogical if Thorne lost an election. He has had enough time to cement his leadership and the reasoning for his mutiny, and has some loyalists. "The other guy has a bigger stick" isn't really a good reason to vote against someone in a blind election.

... Thorne is not in the running. He murdered the Lord Commander. He's getting his ass executed. Maybe it would be somewhat illogical if he lost an election... it'd be ridiculously illogical if he were in the running.

Well now that Jon Snow returns, it would qualify as Attempted Murder but that is still a highly serious crime.

It's not attempted murder if he actually did kill him

Also, it's mutiny either way.

The NW has the following problems: 1) Small Numbers, 2) Their numbers will get smaller once Throne, Olly and Co. either get executed or escape/defect away from Castle Black, 3) They are the only ones who can protect Wildlings from Northern Lords, and protect the Northern people from the Wildlings, 4) Food and supplies for Winter, 5) They need men, dragonglass and other stuff to fight White Walkers.

Their life will get more complicated if Ramsay attacks Castle Black or when Sansa comes there. So basically, they have to move south they have no option, especially since Stannis is dead. He was the only guy with an army who could have potentially solved the political issues and secured their base for the White Walker invasion. They have no ways of getting more soldiers and men, have no way of getting any more sympathetic ears.

They are at rock bottom now.

edited 4th May '16 11:55:20 AM by JulianLapostat