Game Of Thrones -- Book Spoiler Free Thread

House Greyjoy is the better off of the ones listed. While they are being murdered to shit in military terms, they still have the family's head and his brothers (whom have been mentioned to be a thing since the first season, as Tyrion comments to Theon "I remember my father's fleet burning at the Lannisport, I believe your uncles were responsible"), as well as a strong female heir.

Its only heir-wise loss was Theon losing his ability to father heirs (though if they look hard enough, I'm pretty sure they could find one of his bastards and make him legitimate. Theon had a remarkable love for whores, his bastards must be at a Robert Baratheon level)

Oberyn himself was not a bastard, his mother was Princess (Leader of Dorne). Oberyn was the second son of the former ruler of Dorne and Oberyn fathered 8 (known) bastards and has a bastard for a paramour/girlfriend.

Still he is a second son for a reason. The major heir, Doran Martell, is alive and kicking. This is a tragic loss but isn't really a blow to the Martell lineage in the grand scheme of things.

But that's completely different from being a bastard.

I'm aware, but I think the person who said that confused second son from bastard, but I think what he meant was the thought route I mentioned above.

Yeah I took it 'second son' was being use as a euphemism as he was saying bastards didn't cop as much flack where he came from what he was introduced himself.

"Bastards are born of passion, aren't they?''

edited 3rd Jul '14 5:56:16 PM by joeyjojo

While Tywin would have wanted Casterly Rock to remain under the Lannister name, I think that having a King who declares he is of "Houses Baratheon and Lannister" in equal weight and the fact that doing as such and putting the Lion on your heraldry is like a statement of intent that you do think you have a claim on Lannister lands-which Tywin was most likely behind- makes me think that having it go to the King is a very close second. Plus this would have ideally guaranteed the might of his family, and Cersei's children may have a different name but they are his family, as both monarch and ruler of two realms.

Of course this is moot since really it now comes down to what Cersei wants and she sure as hell wants her child to inherit everything. We do know that Twyin has at least one brother, we saw him in the show in season 2, and as the younger brother he seemed completely happy to serve his brother and he would have been raised all his life to expect Casterly Rock to fall to a direct descendant of his brother. Joanna was also Tywin's cousin which means that Tomnen has more of a family ladder than a family tree. There are also the "Lannisport Lannisters" who I think are more distant cousins.

I know in the book Joanna's his distant cousin, apart of a cadet branch of Lannisters, not sure if that's the same in the show though. Likewise, I'm not sure if the show has the Lannisport Lannisters. Regardless, yes, Cersei can press his claim and make Tommen the King, the Warden of the West, and Lord of Storm's End. Or she can have him wave one or both of those claims and have Mycrella (who will be a Martell) as the Warden in the West and Lady of Storm's End (and Princess of Dragonstone). Either move would piss a lot of people off, I think.

Robin Arryn is Warden of the East and no one seems to mind. Most of the titles are for inheritance purposes and ruling can be done by regents.

Problems arise when kids come of age and the regent has grown fond of the power.

The Vale, while troubled by the lost of both of its heads, does have the advantage that no one seems to be trying to do a power grab. While House Arryn is techinically very vulnerable, from what we've seen all the lesser Houses are entirely supportive and actively helping House Arryn get back together.

The main problem here, of course, is Lord Twatbeard.

I don't know the books, I'm only mentioning the things I vaguely recall from the show. I remember the Lannisport Lannisters being mentioned as cousins but from the tone it sounded more like second cousins who you treat a bit more closely because they still share the family name.

"Warden" seemed like one of those titles that actually functioned like a job. Ned Stark was Warden of the North. That was independent of him already ruling the North. Bolton is strictly speaking not the Lord of the North and Tywin arranged it as such- he wanted a Lannister to inherit the title through Sansa- but being given that title meant that he had to go around and secure the place. A literal warden is a job, a guardian or perhaps supervisor. It sounds like one of those deals where it relates specifically to the King- like Baron in the old days- so the King being the Warden is almost paradoxical.

I'm not sure that Mycella can be given anything, it seems like the rules of Westeros make it so that a woman just doesn't become in charge until every other option is exhausted. Tomnen inherits everything. When he dies, it might go to Mycella, but really everything would go to his children. Maybe I'm wrong about the rules but I don't think Cersei would actually want to give away a title to the Martell line. Maybe if Mycella was an older woman trying to secure an inheritance for her children then Cersei would be a sympathetic mother but I suspect that at the moment her plan is to get her daughter home.

The only thing that I think would piss people off is the claim to Storm's End but really it is already his- "legally" Stannis is a traitor- and the people just already don't think of him as a Baratheon.

I'm wondering whether Littlefinger is still going to gun for Sansa to marry Robin as part of his power games. I don't think any attraction he has for her is going to make a difference to that, just whether he had any intention beyond doing it to placate Lysa Arryn. If so, I imagine that he further plans are for Robin Arryn to develop a strong support for his family from his realm, to make reasonable gifts of land and title to his most loyal adviser, to see himself to age of maturity, have a child (and not suspect anything when the child is born with a goatee) by Lady Sansa Arryn, and then just as he is beginning to find his way without relying so heavily on his old advisors to meet with an unfortunate accident. But maybe that's too long term for Lord Chaos Ladders.

Petyr, of the House Twatbeard, first of his name. Long may he allow us who reign to solicit prostitutes.

I'm pretty sure he's waiting to have Robin killed in a way that won't look too suspicious upon himself.

Yeah, Tommen could legitimately claim both Casterly Rock and Storm's End at this point. He could even say that with Sansa and her husband both vanished, and Sansa having no heirs, as Tyrion's nephew he has a claim to Winterfell as well.

It all comes down to which claims you can defend, and at the moment he's struggling to hold onto the Throne. If he wants to keep his crown, giving Casterly Rock to a close relative is in the best interests of the family, ruling it from afar through a castellan isn't sustainable forever.

edited 5th Jul '14 3:29:38 AM by johnnye

House Greyjoy is the better off of the ones listed. While they are being murdered to shit in military terms, they still have the family's head and his brothers (whom have been mentioned to be a thing since the first season, as Tyrion comments to Theon "I remember my father's fleet burning at the Lannisport, I believe your uncles were responsible"), as well as a strong female heir.

Its only heir-wise loss was Theon losing his ability to father heirs (though if they look hard enough, I'm pretty sure they could find one of his bastards and make him legitimate. Theon had a remarkable love for whores, his bastards must be at a Robert Baratheon level)

Theon was the last heir to the Greyjoys. I believe he had two brothers, who were killed when the Greyjoys rebelled. When that rebellion was quelled, Theon was kept as a hostage.

edited 7th Jul '14 6:17:08 AM by Larkmarn

I know, what I'm saying is the Greyjoys pretty much got their bases covered by Balon being still alive, having two brothers who are also alive, Yara Greyjoy, and the likely possibility of Theon having a usable bastard boy somewhere in Westeros. House Greyjoy is still pretty secure in heir terms.

He's Balon's last heir (besides Asha) for the reasons you describe. Balon has brothers, though.

Family tree (frond?)

Has Balon been impotent for a decade or something? How come Theon was so sure he didn't just go bang a ton more women in all the places he's attacked with his rape-and-pillage pirate crew?

It takes a long time to raise children and Balon is already old. Leaving a child as his successor would have been disastrous.

And even if Balon actually did go about raping every woman in his line of sight, all that would amount to naught because those would be bastards. Only if somehow his entire lineage (including his brothers and whichever sons they might have) is wiped out he could rely on them.

His wife had a mental breakdown after her sons were killed/abducted, as well.

We've already seen parts of the Tyrion and Jaime dancefest, but outside of that, nothing is better than watching Charles Dance botch a Tywin line. Except, of course for certain other scenes. It took two viewings for me to catch the scene where Oberyn almost catches himself on fire. The struggles of being tall...

edited 26th Jul '14 12:59:15 AM by wanderlustwarrior

Bastards don't inherit, and when Balon died it had only been 10 years since he Rebellion. He'd have ended up leaving a 9 year old as his successor (Which is besides the fact that the kid would be the second son).

So a trailer for season five has been leaked, featuring Varys ascending to godhood ("The Seven Kingdoms needs a ruler loved by millions, with a powerful army and the right family name" "Good luck finding him" "...Who said anything about him?") Tyrion's magnificent Badass Beard, Jorah Mormont participating in what seems to be a Gladiator fight, Wildlings and Night's Watchmen figuring out their differences or something, the Sand Snakes doing their things and the Jonathan Pryce's High Sparrow and his first Badass Boast: "Strip away the gold, knock down the statues and this is what remains."

edited 30th Jan '15 11:29:22 AM by Gaon

Lamenting the double post, but they released a HD version: