LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

I'm female. And, I've shared bathroom facilities with pre- and post-op MtF women. What's the big deal? She's a she. And, if she happens to be wired lesbian, big woop: that's no more different that any other lesbian I've shared facilities with. <_<

Wooty. I leave it to 12 year old girls in boarding school to obsess over who may or may not be bothered with their bits when they just happen to share a room with plenty of other people.

edited 30th Jul '13 6:25:34 PM by Euodiachloris

More people than you'd think would be okay for sharing a bathroom.

My University actually has three kinds of bathroom. Male (with the little stick guy next to it,) female (with the little stick female next to it), and gender neutral (with both stick people on it. The first time I saw it I was so happy I chose the gender neutral bathroom. I figure if they see a lot of usage the idea might spread.

We've had no troubles with attacks or peeping or anything like that. The idea that men and women can't share a bathroom without something terribad happening is in and of itself Unfortunate Implications.

Now I'm reminded of people justifying DADT because of what gay guys might be thinking about in the showers.

re: return of the transgender topic

edited 30th Jul '13 6:31:03 PM by RadicalTaoist

@Morgikit, Basically what Captain Katsura said. I don't have a problem personally with sharing a bathroom with a pre-op Mt F or a pre-op Ft M. However, I can understand that there might be concerns no matter what bathroom they use. The optimal solution is for them to use a gender neutral or private bathroom, but that's not always an option. Post-op I think it's pretty obvious which one they should use.

My boarding school had mixed toilets throughout, the only ones that were segregated were some of the girls ones and that was just because the boys tended to trash the ones they got to use. I don't think we ever had any kind of incident, least not in the toilet bit. I'm sure we had a few incidents of boys trying to spy on girls taking a bath/shower, but you put almost a hundred kids together in a boarding school and try and avoid such incidents, teenage boys can be very resourceful.

Though I should point out that all the toilets had stalls, no urinals.

edited 30th Jul '13 6:34:33 PM by Silasw

Every cleaning crew I've ever talked to has agreed that girls are far more disgusting to clean up after than boys. Weird.

There were two urinals in ours.

...not sure how to tie this back into religion.

edited 30th Jul '13 6:40:33 PM by IConfuseMe

Keep in mind that we lived there, so while the girls probably made more mess than the boys, we were much less inclined to have any kind of house proudness and try and keep the place tidy. You wouldn't get shit front the other guys if you left a mess in the dudes toilets, the other girls would be tutting for a week if you made a mess of the girls toilets (and they would know it was you).

edited 30th Jul '13 6:54:02 PM by Silasw

I'll agree with that: if any lass tried to flush a tampon down the loo and it clogged... she'd not hear the end of it for at least half a term from the peers.

Tends to keep you semi-honest. <_<

speaking as someone whose worked as a school janitor?

The women's toilet is usually a horror show.

I can back that up. When I worked fast food, I always preferred cleaning the men's bathroom because it was easier.

I've worked in a huge Grocery story. The women's bathrooms were almost always worse.

Yeah, it's not easy.

I guess it does make a big difference when all your peers will hold you accountable.

I don't need to imagine it, that's every day of term for me. I have not fainted with shock and terror yet.

I would love if there were more coed or unisex bathrooms in my area. Then I wouldn't have any concerns over my son going to the bathroom by himself in a male only. He could stay with me.

I've used guys bathrooms before because the line for the women's was too long. I knocked and asked, the guys in there just laughed and said to come on in. Even the ones at the urinal thought it was funny, not horrifying.

Besides, even girls know the code: don't go to the stall/booth right beside another if you can. Keep your eyes and feet to yourself. Talking is strictly regulated.

I like the guys better because they seem to hold to those rules better.

And to pull back on topic:

It seems like the biggest problem people have with homosexuals is based on bodily functions and parts. I get anal sex is a squick factor. But heterosexual couples do it occasionally just as there are homosexual couples that don't.

We (specifically Americans) have a lot of body issues we need to get over. I always found it amusing that I can wear anything I want to show off my breasts and legs, but if I tried to nurse my son in public, even with a blanket over us, people flipped shit. You can show violent sexual scenes on TV but you show a gay couple kissing or nuzzling and people freak.

We (again, mostly Americans) need to grow up about our passive aggressive and hypocritical views on the human body if we want to get over some of the hangups with human sexuality.

The problem is the Catholic Church equated the body to sex and sin for so long, the Protestants kept it up to a degree depending on the sect, and it's just engrained itself in our culture in a bad way.

I think I more or less agree. I'm a nudist so I just don't get the all the hangups people have about their body.

I'm back gang.

@Mura - Actually Soban, does kinda speak for me on this issue. I've long said that if somebody went through the trouble of getting genitals rearranged; well hell, at that point I say, so be it.

For the record, I am a guy and I don't really care who pisses next to me, though I echo my sentiment we could just do more unisex bathrooms and be done with it.

re: A person knows themselves..... - First off, my viewpoint is a bit more than a "preconceived notion", it's based on the research available and parallels with other identity issues.

Second, it seems we count "deep-seated feelings" when we feel like it, and disregard it when convenient, ala ex-gays.

Unisex bathrooms

They are pretty bitchin'. And as Gabrael pointed out, forget the trans issue (as it's really not that big an issue), it really is ridiculous how many women use men's rooms anyway. And in all my life, I think I met 1 guy who actually bitched about it.

So, it's like these things become unisex anyway.

I disagree that the trans issue isn't a big one just because it's a small minority. An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, a wise man once said. And the injustices trans people face go far beyond the restroom.

My issue with "ex-gay" (why don't they just call themselves straight) people is that they shill for the vile conversion "therapy" industry that seeks to pressure impressionable people into conforming to certain people's limited views on sexuality. If they just said "I don't think I'm a homosexual anymore" and left it at that, whatever.

edited 31st Jul '13 8:06:50 AM by Morgikit

I don't know much about ex-gays, So I don't have much to say there.

I don't think either of us had said that transgender issues are not important. I would imagine they are pretty important to the people who have them. (Rain is an awesome webcomic BTW.) I personally don't run across it in my life so I have not put much thought into it.

I didn't explain myself properly, I didn't mean "Trans people are a weird little minority so whatever."

I was trying to say "no big issue" in that here I am considered by some to be "transphobic" (by whatever Personal Dictionary is in use at the moment) and even I don't particularly care if a transman uses the bathroom with me. As in, it's a non-issue.

The transviolence? That's a huge issue, and it needs to be stopped. Post haste.

edited 31st Jul '13 8:19:46 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

Preferences when it comes to gender of your partner may shift to some extent, but that simply makes you bisexual.

Not entirely true. There are few things as uncomfortable as someone walking right up to the urinal next to you and then proceeding to try and hold a conversation with you while you're pissing. And, unlike when people do this in stalls, you can actually see the person and they'll look you in the eyes as they talk.

Hence why I said it was regulated. I have had some guys tell me it's okay to talk if you guys are already friends and don't make eye contact. I have had some guys say no talking period. O have had some guys say talking is fine even with eye contact but only in like football locker rooms or other specific contexts.

I chalked that up to regional preferences.