LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

Really? I'm pretty sure ten years ago most churches wouldn't admit gays unless they promised to make an attempt to "quit" homosexuality.

Edit: Ninjed.

edited 10th Apr '13 7:18:53 AM by Wildcard

Doesn't sound like any church I ever attended.

I think most churches are pretty good about admitting people they view to be terrible sinners. But I'm pretty sure I've heard of churches that don't admit open gays.

So all could be admitted to pray?

Maybe, maybe it just never comes up. I don't think many churches have a sign up sheet that says "gay or straight". If they know a person is gay though in some places it might be different. Basically I don't think a Church near me would take the married lesbian couple I know. They seem to be strict about the sexual immortality when it comes to gay people.

edited 10th Apr '13 9:32:53 AM by Wildcard

The churches I grew up in didn't have signs saying "No Fags Allowed". But if you were to out yourself in them (because you're a masochist, I guess?) they'd have no issue telling you you'll roast in hell for eternity unless you repent now.

I've been excommunicated from 3 different congregations, two Church of Christ and one Methodist.

Yeah, it seems some churches are not letting people in for things like that.

I..... don't even know what to say.

I'm sorry.

Wow, really? Just for being gay?

I've been kicked out of churches, and have friends who have been kicked out of churches. For being gay, or being pagan but coming along with friends to see how different religions work, it's really not that odd. I've done the latter respectfully. You stand and sit when everyone else does, keep your hands folded and your lips closed and just watch, but don't really participate. It's not that hard.

Would a mainstream church really ban you for just observing? Especially if you announced that you were just there to observe?

They have in the past, so my answer to that is yes.

Yes, yes they would, Wildcard.

Some people are that bigoted. Or just assholes. Or both. That's just how it is sometimes.

You'd have to be pretty brave to admit to being LGBT or pagan in my part of the country, I'm sure.

I wish that the fear wasn't so bad there. What it take to get people braver about it over there? I can't wish people to come out in mass if it seems their is such a threat.

The confidence that this won't result in you loosing your job or worse could help.

True.

Why should we be the ones who have to change? Despite what the churches say, we just want to be treated as equals. They're the ones who want to live in a world where we don't exist.

Unfortunately it is because if the majority of the homosexuals there don't change to be braver and more open the state majority won't change either. Of course if the fear of being open is such that it isn't an option than I don't know what to do.

It's the kind of cycle that only will break when more information and more tolerance is spread. The proliferation of fundamentalism and evangelicals hurts this, since they spread misinformation and untruths across generations and make political statement part of religious indoctrination.

At the end of the day, we can get the institution and the laws to change, but changing minds and hearts will only come with the bravery to speak out and compassion to be hear.

Most gay people are less afraid of violent reprisals from strangers (though this is of course a very real and shocking terror), and more of a violent or cold reaction from close family. Your parents, especially in America where college is so expensive etc, have a huge deal of control over you. Sure, being disowned and run out of town might be that great moment for self-reinvention in the movies. In reality, it usually ends with some poor child homeless or in gaol, or dead of exposure in some nameless street. Factor in being cut off by the people you love, and coming out can become a horrible terror. LGBT people in unforgiving neighborhoods aren't necessarily ashamed of who they are (though that is a big part of it in many cases, due to the clash of attitudes), but afraid of being cut off emotionally and financially by the people they love.

Coming out as bisexual, to loving parents who continued to love me, was hard enough for me. I cannot imagine the pain that people who are not sure of their parents or their community's reactions must go through. Saying "they just need to be braver" does them a huge disservice.

edited 10th Apr '13 2:39:51 PM by Achaemenid

Good point. But how can we change the people around them?

By getting the people around LGBT Qs to be braver.

edited 10th Apr '13 3:10:53 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

The pressure needs to be on the straight people, not the gay people.

And, we can change things by just continuing to spread correct information. It's already changing things.

edited 10th Apr '13 3:11:19 PM by Haldo

Indeed. A girl in my sociology class can't come out as bisexual to her parents both because they'd kick her out of the house, and because they pay her tuition.