LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

Well, considering the Catholic hierarchy has been known to deny communion to politicians who support policies that go against their official teachings, I think it's safe to assume His Holiness doesn't go around blessing people willy-nilly.

Actually, someone in the comments said he just blessed everyone who was there. People formed a line to receive the blessing from His Holiness, and he just blessed whoever was on it.

But, frankly, if this was the case, he is still at fault. Someone in his position should know everything he does sends a message to millions of people. He should be more careful with his actions.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:22:36 PM by Heatth

@Morgikit: Yeah, actually, he kinda does.

Wait, if you can change the views of the Church's followers, then by definition aren't you changing the views of the Church.

It's really a case of changing the views of the right followers. Namely the guy in the silly hat on the big gold throne.

edited 31st Dec '12 7:08:30 AM by Elfive

Dude, why do you make the Catholic leadership sound like the Time Lords??

Are they really so different?

So....are we going to get a series about an insane Catholic priest who steals a time machine permanently locked into the appearance of a cathedral who journeys through time battling religious injustice??

edited 31st Dec '12 7:26:20 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

A cathedral? That'd make parking a bit difficult wouldn't it?

I imagine it would. But that might be the least of his problems.

Random person: (whilst being chased by weird automatated pepper-pots shouting "IN-QUI-SI-TION! IN-QUI-SI-TION!") Who are you?

Insane priest: I'm the Father. Get in.

Person: Father...who????

(Cut to opening credits showing a cathedral spinning through the vortex....)

And this is the real reason I come to this thread.

Depends how you define "The Church". I define it as the view of its main teachings and the Priest(s) that does so. Not the followers. Changing them at best would have them leave that particular Church and perhaps start a new one. Or find one that's far more appropriate to their views.

Changing the Priests, on the other hand...

Not that we shouldn't change the followers, to clarify. All should be shown the way of respect towards all beings.

Getting off of that preachy note, there is a difference between the Church and its followers.

Actually, many national Catholic hierarchies (emphatically including the American one) have been notorious for failing to deny Communion to just such politicians. It's one of the very biggest and most frequent complaints many U.S. Catholics make about their bishops and archbishops. And from what I gather about the mass event at which this single blessing among countless occurred, this news jibes perfectly with such complaints.

No. The Catholic Church is a hierarchy. We could change the views of everyone on the bottom so that the majority of the members believe it, but the church would not change because those on top control the church, and not those on the bottom. With such clearly structured hierarchies, while grassroots movements have their place, they cannot change the organization.

If you change the opinions of everyone below a certain age, that will eventually filter up. Or completely collapse the organisation. It depends on how stubborn the current leaders are.

Well, yeah. All organisations are inherently democratic even if they aren't chartered as such or officially recognise democratic choices. If enough supporters fail to, you know, support a position then the hierarchy above them collapses or has to change its policies in order to prevent collapse.

Unfortunately, people really like being led. Or are really scared or unable to make their own decisions. And there's inertia, and a host of other problems.

That said, it's not like we're not travelling towards a world that provides marriage equality (though not a bigotry free planet) if only because of capitalist interest in exploiting a valuable market, with religious conservatives eventually bending to economic conservatives. Though, like I said, I doubt this will heal any great rifts between queer communities and conservative establishments.

edited 31st Dec '12 4:25:50 PM by Nicknacks

What I meant, @Starship, was that it is easier to convince individual Catholics that their church is wrong on various issues. For instance, only 17% of Catholics in the UK said they agreed with every aspect of Church teaching.

But how many of them agree with all-but-one teaching, and therefore stay with the church because it still fits their beliefs the best?

Good point.

Good question.

.....And because the thought just tickled me too much.

Villain of the week: Do you have anything to say for yourself heretic??

Father Who: (thinks for a moment) Want a jelly baby? (Villains stare speechless) You mustn't worry, I blessed them myself!

edited 1st Jan '13 6:00:02 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

Tehe.

Interestingly, almost no government is under any obligation to maintain an embassy at the Vatican, even if it recognizes it. The Church is unbelievably prissy when countries try to merge their missions to Italy and the Holy See, citing the Lateran Pacts. However, these pacts are extremely weak as a basis to statehood - they aren't even a treaty, rather an agreement between the Kingdom of Italy and the Catholic Church, the first of which no longer exists and the second of which was not a state. Further, under the Montevideo Convention, a state must have a people - and no one is born in the Vatican (or at least, one hopes not...).

I wonder, if they held the same citizenship rights as for babies born to illegal immigrants in the US, how many mothers would sneak over the "border" into the Vatican for the purpose of having a kid with Vatican citizenship.

Anyone else getting massive reposts of the "lesbian Disney princess" picture? While I'm obviously supporting of gay rights, I wonder how many fewer reposts there would be if the two figures were, say, Aladdin and Prince Charming?

Never underestimate the powers of shipping.

Bah! Aladdin/Prince Charming is a terrible ship!

...Now, Aladdin/Flynn... That's an entirely different story.

Prince Charming has far too little personality to be shipped with anyone.

Edit: And now that I think about it, Aladdin and Flynn are pretty similar characters, which might not make them very compatible.

edited 1st Jan '13 4:26:58 PM by Ultrayellow

*headdesk* I used those because they were the first two I thought of. ... Okay, third, but I don't think Aladdin/Beast would go over any better.