LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

If Jesus was gay this wouldn't be a derail!

See? Homosexuality would totally solve this problem!

Wait... If homosexuality is a sin, and the payment for sin is death, then do Christians believe that homosexuals deserve to die for being gay?

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

I was hoping for a response from Ultrayellow, but I suppose I'll defend my position anyway.

Derail: Starship's stance on homosexuality depends on the word of God being a defensible moral position. I'm testing that position to see if it holds up. Therefore, my line of argument is of direct relevance.

Flame Bait: Nope. My intention is to provoke discussion and to see if the biblical argument against homosexuality holds water. Flame bait would be something along the lines of 'btu god dun exits lol', Insane Troll Logic or condescension.

Offensive: I'm asking questions. If that offends you, I apologise. *Shrug*

@Maxima Nobody has the ability to decide whom they are attracted to. That is why being gay is not a choice.

Straight people are not attracted to their own gender. Gay people are. They didn't choose that. Straight people cannot will themselves to be gay, and gay people cannot will themselves to be straight. It's impossible.

edited 4th Dec '12 3:11:59 PM by Haldo

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

The whole "being gay isn't a choice" thing seems like a no brainer to me. I didn't choose to be attracted to women, I just am. It stands to reason that this is how it works for folks who are gay, as well. I suppose if you were bisexual and had a limited understanding of human sexuality you might think of orientation as a choice, but you'd still be wrong.

But even if homosexuality was a choice, what would it matter? People can do what they like as long as they aren't hurting anyone else.

@Snipe: Defend your post against what? I wasn't talking to you. I didn't even read your original post. My post was a response to Lawyerdude.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

Sorry. I asked if your post was in response to my line of argument and responded to Glass Pistol's Mathematician's Answer.

Well, at least you responded, unlike Lawyerdude.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

Sorry, I saw a chance I had to take.

This thread needs more levity.

Levity? In a thread about discussing the fate of peoples' souls?

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

Anger is bad for the mind. We are on the best forum I've ever found, with some of the most respectable people I've had the pleasure to read.

Maybe not levity, but we can stand to be calm.

I love you guys.

That's true. Remaining calm is a very good thing.

It's just hard to do when people insist on declaring your very existence a sin against all that is good and holy.

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

I find it helpful to step away every now and then and watch a funny video, though you're probably smart enough to figure that out on your own.

But think just how much good you are actually doing by getting mad on the internet, the place where ideas fall into the void, and anger is a way of giving ammunition to those who would already disregard your argument.

For the record, I'm for gay rights.

I'm not angry, just blunt and overaggressive.

@Haldo: Then you must never be calm, since there are always people doing that.

And not just because of orientation, either. There are also people denouncing your race (whatever it is) and your religion (ditto).

edited 4th Dec '12 4:30:42 PM by Ultrayellow

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

I'm just not calm when I'm talking to/about people who denounce my orientation. Sure, there are some people who denounce my race and religion, but the opinions of those people don't really have any affect on my life, because they can't do anything about it.

edited 4th Dec '12 4:34:11 PM by Haldo

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

There is a time for anger, just as there is a time to be calm. My request was very selfish, It hurts my heart to see people I respect so much hurling judgments and insults at one another.

@Starship: I am breaking lurk mode to thank you for your posts on the previous page. Speaking as one Christian to another, I find your declaration of faith touching and inspiring. It's takes a lot of courage and dedication to be so open about what you believe, esp. when you know much of it will make you unpopular. You have reminded me what our religion is actually about, so you have earned my sincere respect.

That said, I must disagree with you about one thing: I don't think homosexuality is a sin.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

I think you are confusing what being gay means, Maxima. It is not about having sex or romancing people of the same gender. It is about physical attraction. Yes, people can chose who they have sex with. They can't chose who they are attracted to, however. That is why being gay is not a choice.

edited 5th Dec '12 2:37:40 AM by Heatth

Well, Christians believe that Jesus is God, so that means He's inflicting suffering and death upon Himself. I was hoping you'd know better than to make such an inflammatory comment when you apparently have a less-than-basic understanding of Christianity.

I don't even think I need to say anything to highlight how wrong this is.

edited 4th Dec '12 8:11:35 PM by Boredman

cum

So the creator of the universe is a Masochist?

Everything makes sense now.*

@Matues: Every creator is a masochist. Just look at the average writer.

Anyhow, I find the whole discussion involving the Scriptural legitimacy (or lack thereof) of homosexuality to be academic. Scripture can be used to justify virtually any position, no matter how illogical or hurtful. This is why it really should have no place in how we write our laws.

Another example of religion getting way more power than it actually deserves in government.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Also, about the Word of God: Why should we believe that something is bad if God himself can't explain why?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

I could give it a shot.

Ok, back when the Bible was written there were a lot less people on the planet, and they all lived in small tribes who spent their time killing each other. Back then, it was important to reproduce as much as possible in order to combat the population drain caused by infant mortality, diseases and being murdered by other tribes. This is something you can't do if your sexuality points you at things you can't reproduce with. Too many homosexuals, and the tribe can't sustain itself.

Today, this is not an issue. There are seven billion humans on earth right now, and the number is steadily rising. We are running out of resources. It's actually beneficial to the species as a whole if fewer people reproduce.

In fact, (the) god(s) might actually be making more people born gay, in order to relieve the pressure on the planet, which we caused by advancing medicine to the point where infant mortality is at the lowest and life expectancy is at it's highest.

Lets face it. Whatever reason people had for condemning homosexuality, today there's simply no reason to. If your god(s) can't move with the times... fuck 'em.

And I'm back, and my what interesting times happened while I was busy.

First off, I never get tired of someone openly, honestly, and intelligently stating their beefs with Christianity, as you have done. God, and those who follow him, aren't intimidated by people being honest. Rather we welcome it. The Christian who needs people to kiss their ass...isn't a Christian at all.

Why is this so fucking funny??

No. Jesus paid so that the homosexual won't have to die, so that the whore doesn't have to die, so that the abusive cop doesn't have to die, so that NO ONE has to die.

And the thread said "Amen".

It seems we're in agreement in that point, but there's a base assumption in that agreement that we interpret differently.

It seems that some people that your attractions, your preferences, are immutable. I don't know if I believe that. I think that if you make a conscious decision to renounce something, then much like any learned behavior, you can learn to stop wanting it. I think that concept is at the core of legitimate behavioral therapy.

For instance, are some people just naturally huge eaters? Yes. I think though someone can learn to not compulsively eat.

This means a great deal to me. Thank you. Although, I don't necessarily look at it as if I share my beliefs I'll be unpopular. I think people who don't understand the truth of our faith as you and I do have done some unfortunate things in it's name.

It's the duty of you, me, and all who are true followers of the mission to serve humanity to make amends for those misdeeds. The Bible calls this "winning souls for Christ".

Not ordering, not threatening, not "therapy-ing". Winning.

More responses to come.

edited 5th Dec '12 6:44:17 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor