LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

I refuse to believe homosexuality, or any other sin, should be condemned by death because The Bible ALSO expressly forbids harming those who pose no threat to you. Here's the proof, from Jesus's own mouth, in Matthew Chapter 7, Verses 1-4

It was an honor

How bad do you personally think homosexuality is on the sin scale anyway? XDD

Oh, I guess it wasn't execution for sex during menstruation, it was exile. The wording implies septic issues, so yeah, that's hygiene right in the middle of the sexual ethics bits.

edited 24th Oct '12 12:22:50 PM by Pykrete

If the cause was about shortage of (military) manpower, conscription would make more sense.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

I'll assume you're asking me that question. The truth, I find it weird, in as much as I have no frame for reference, as women turn me on and the thought of sex with a guy or surgically altered guy is...squicky.

But....place it on the sin scale...it would be somewhere with stiffing the waiter and rudely taking a parking spot somebody wanted. As in...not that big a fucking deal.

It was an honor

I guess we're the same in that regard, since I pretty much think the same about being together with a guy. :P

Great minds, eh?

It was an honor

I'd rather be called a parking spot grabber than a Nazi. :p

But I'm a girl, so it's sinful!

And you call me a great mind! Pff.

edited 24th Oct '12 12:30:06 PM by kay4today

Then that means, Maxima, that you only believe certain parts of Leviticus, which goes down to my point; You're cherry-picking which you believe is the best solution.

That's all I want you to realize. And with that said, it's infallible since not all parts are true overall.

No, I'm not asking you to change your views, or interpret it differently, just to realize it's not a perfect book. That's all I'm getting at. Do you understand now?

Quest 64 thread

It's a classic day when someone actually prefers to be Godwinned.

I have a hard time arguing with somebody who's into hot women.

It was an honor

My, what a Double Standard!

@Maxima:

You have not addressed my point that uneducated Bronze Age goat herders would have been unable to avoid screwing up no matter how specific any more intelligent being instructing them was. Heck, if someone from today was to go back and try to explain genetic biology and modern germ theory to them, they would screw it up; they lack the conceptual foundation and have too many tribal biases.

You have not addressed that point; in fact, you've been rather pointedly avoiding my posts for the last few pages.

@kay: The verb is to reproduce. Who me, Grammar Nazi? Naahhhh.

@Crisis of Infinite Jesus: Why is this not a thing?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

No Taoist, I just don't have anything to add. I believe that God divinely inspired the writing of the Word, specifically because Bronze Age herders wouldn't've been able to write it otherwise.

I think I'm beginning to see the problem. You consider the Bible a bunch of disjointed texts. As in, they're bound by nothing more than being in the same Book.

I think you perceive the Bible to be a box-set of different movies with a tangential relationship, kinda like a Bruce Willis collection of The Sixth Sense, Looper, and Armeggeddon.

I look at the Bible as being like the Die Hard trilogy or the complete collection of Star Wars. The Books of the Bible are a chapters in a complete and overarching thought. Ignoring one means that you won't fully understand the rest.

It was an honor

Wasn't the point of Jesus dying on the cross to forgive all peoples of their sin?

Why does the church even care about gay believers?

Right. Sorry, I misspoke.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Don't compare the Bible to movies, please. I find that rather demeaning.

And no, they do exist as a whole, but they also are written by different people who believe different things. As in... there is no one true voice being written. Just a bunch of smaller voices who may be right.

In a sense, yeah, that's what I believe, but then again, that's actually how it really exists. Because faulty humans wrote it, not God himself.

The reason it evolved a bit, is because the culture did too. One thing to note is that some of the Bible is based upon culture more than universal standards. The universal standards are the Ten Commandments, and most specifically, the respect thing. The whole "homosexuality is a sin"(which isn't state that way anyway) was not meant for everyone to believe.

The reason I don't believe all of it is infallible, is because there's too much stupid stuff that isn't even really written out/abolished later on. Assuming Leviticus meant Homosexuality, it's never abolished later, meaning that we're told that it should be treated as an evil thing. Now, I'm sorry, but I don't care what the Good Book says. I am not about to treat that as anything but an evil idea and that it is just plain wrong. I'm going to cherrypick too. Like we all do.

And I'm going to believe everybody deserves equal rights, including marriage, and that all sexualities are not a sin by any means.(I will note, I'm not a fan of incest, but I do not believe it to be wrong except when genetic problems happen. Outside of that, it's fine)

I preach tolerance to all, equality to all, and the only illegal acts should be the Ten Commandments. I also am fine with Polygamy, to note. Because that is not Adultery as long as they were all married that way.

Quest 64 thread

That is the ENTIRE point of Jesus existing. Now, forgivenss of sins doesn't mean we now stop calling something a sin so as to not offend people. That is not love.

The Church is supposed to care about homosexuals, the same way it's supposed to care about fornicators, thieves, short-tempered people, liars, tax cheats, etc.

You're supposed to care enough to tell them you believe they're wrong. You're supposed to care enough to BE there for them when they need it. You're supposed to care enough to STAND against those who'd mistreat them.

That's the point of Jesus's existence and by extension, the Church's.

It was an honor

The big issue of incest is really one of power dynamics. Incest is very rarely consensual but instead tends to coerced and fucked up by one partner feeling that if they don't do this then they don't really love the other. It's sort of a form of Stockholm syndrome. There are consent issues there even beyond the genetics.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Starship, you've never told me I'm wrong before!

Tone doesn't come off well online, what you just said is essentially what I failed to convey properly.

edited 24th Oct '12 1:36:05 PM by GlassPistol

x4 The problem is, believing they're wrong is already harmful enough due to how people act on that, consciously or not.

Isn't that quite specific to Parental Incest? Within the same generation, there may be neither more nor less power/consent issues than with normal couples.

edited 24th Oct '12 1:38:15 PM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

@shimaspawn; I'm just not sure if incest is something that occurs in a psychologically healthy, natural environment. Is it possible for one to be pedisposed to it in the same way as homosexuality, bisexuality, etc?

@Max: I think the problem is both "sides" are seeing the problem by different angles:

• You see the angle that "the bible can't be wrong because it was written by God possessing people"[citation needed] and therefore, homosexuality is wrong.
• We see the angle that "Homosexuality can't be wrong because it harms nobody", therefore, the Bible can't be right (and Therefore, it can't have been written by God without faulty middlemen).

Ah, OK. Understood.

edited 24th Oct '12 1:55:46 PM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

@ Medinoc: No, actually it's common in Brother–Sister Incest as well normally with the older sibling being the aggressor and convincing the younger one that they need to keep it secret and that it's how you show someone you love them. Incest in general just does not have a tendency to be truly consensual which is probably in part because it is so taboo.

edited 24th Oct '12 1:43:05 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick