Rename (alt titles crowner 6/19): Badass Spaniard

I understand why it might be good, but I am convinced that Swashbuckling Anything is bad. Inigo and Tuco share several character traits, but one is not based on the other.

edited 3rd Jul '12 7:05:09 PM by rodneyAnonymous

We might need 2 tropes, the swashbuckling hero (ancestor of The Cowl) and the suave Spaniard. The current description includes both.

edited 3rd Jul '12 5:15:26 PM by abk0100

Okay, my latest revision to make the "all weapons" thing more clear;

The (Whatever the hell we end up deciding on) is particular type of Anti-Hero, a bit of a rogue, skilled in their weapon of choice be it sword, bow or gun, and either Hispanic in origin (including that settings equivalent) or a non-hispanic character styled after them.

They are charmers, always witty and quick-thinking, and a hit with the ladies (or men, depending on gender or sexual orientation). Their fighting styles are more about being athletic and striking with finesse than clumsy swings or wild shots, and their actions are governed by a strict code of honor they adhere to. They usually have a habit of swearing vengeance on someone who’s wronged them, and god help anyone who gets in the way of their revenge. Expect this trait to be played up in parodies.

While this trope was codified around Zorro, it's since evolved a long way from its roots and is now as at home in a modern setting with gunslingers as it is in a historical one with Rapiers.

Not sure how much better that one is, but it does make it clear that it's any weapon, and guns are mentioned specifically.

Bringing up to the front of the page; one option is five ahead of the next one. Can we finally call this crowner?

That option was only added a day or two ago though. That said, it has a 7:1 ratio so lets just give it another until Saturday or Sunday.

And with a little luck this time a horde of people wont downvote it and upvote Swashbuckling Spaniard as per the last four times I when we could call the crowner.

The point of a crowner isn't to "Quickly, let's close it before the undesirable options get an upvote!". The point of a crowner is to gather consensus after it is stable. The fact that the options switch around every time there's a bump, plus the fact that the arguments about the names continue in this thread, is why the crowner is not closed. We don't just look at the number of votes. We need to exercise judgement.

Well, Dashing Hispanic has been clearly in the lead the whole time it's been available.

I fear its winning because A) it's the least problematic choice, and B) we still haven't found the ideal name. But sometimes you have to go with what life offers ya. :)

Dashing Hispanic has been the most popular vote so far, there hasn't been a downswing yet, it solves both problems with the name (getting rid of the Badass name that has been overused in tropes and removing Spaniard which is a term to describe those of Spanish Nationality, not descent).

The real challenge after settling on a name is to clean up all the bad wicks where tropers have used this trope as "badass who speaks Spanish."

Given that it's currently 15:1 in favor while everything else is in the red, I'd say it's not being premature to call this in favor of Dashing Hispanic.

I second that motion, since this discussion has taken forever to reach this point.

Also, could somebody please explain why people keep adding "something Spaniard" to the titles list? It was one of two things wrong with the original name.

We prefer at least 15 votes before closing a crowner. This one only had 13 in the last bump. Now that it has 15, it has been called.

Okay, in that case here is my revised trope description, with thanks to Shima's example

The Dashing Hispanic is particular type of Anti-Hero, a bit of a rogue, skilled in their weapon of choice be it sword, bow or gun, and either Hispanic in origin (or that settings's equivilant) or a non-hispanic character styled after them.

They are charmers, always witty and quick-thinking, and a hit with the ladies (or men, depending on gender or sexual orientation). Their fighting styles are more about being athletic and striking with finesse than clumsy swings or wild shots, and their actions are governed by a strict code of honor they adhere to. They usually have a habit of swearing vengeance on someone who’s wronged them, and god help anyone who gets in the way of their revenge. Expect this trait to be played up in parodies.

While this trope was codified around Zorro, it's since evolved a long way from its roots and is now as at home in a modern setting with gunslingers as it is in a historical one with Rapiers.

Close, but I think it needs a bit more focus. Give me a few, and I'll see if I can come up with a tightened-up version.

eta: btw, I just remembered an example that doesn't even use weapons, since he's a superhero: Batmanuel from the live-action version of The Tick.

edited 9th Jul '12 12:02:06 PM by Xtifr

I don't like the way that description seems to invite examples that are like "This character is this trope in every way except that he's not Hispanic!"

If this is an archetype that evolved from imitation of specific examples, I think it's a good idea to open the description by talking briefly about the history of the trope. Presenting the trope as a list of otherwise-unrelated attributes is a good way to invite Square Peg Round Trope. Giving the context makes it easier to grok: You're not giving people milk, eggs, flour, and sugar. You're giving them a cake.

The flip side is that focusing too much on the historical origins can make people assume that updated examples don't really fit.

But I agree that the current draft is putting way to much emphasis and detail on some very minor exceptions. For example, instead of "either Hispanic in origin (or that settings's equivalent) or a non-hispanic character styled after them", I would simply say, "Hispanic or some reasonable approximation." For "hit with the ladies (or men, depending on gender or sexual orientation)", I would say, "hit with the ladies (or whatever)".

I also think we need the key words, "stock character", right up at the top.

eta: basically, focus on the stock version, and admit where there's room for variation, but don't try to list every possible variation. That really does encourage people to list "examples" with so many exceptions that they're not actually examples.

edited 9th Jul '12 4:14:18 PM by Xtifr

I believe it has to be Hispanic or the fantasy world equivalent. I can't think of any examples that aren't.

Puss in Boots from Shrek?

He's voiced by Antonio Bandaras, and he's clearly modeled after this trope, but he's lot literally hispanic, or from any particular culture as far as I know.

He's fantasy counterpart Hispanic. He falls under the fantasy world equivalent.

edited 9th Jul '12 8:49:10 PM by shimaspawn

If that counts as fantasy counterpart Hispanic, then "Hispanic / fantasy counterpart Hispanic" should cover everything.

It does. If you saw Puss In Boots the town he came from was modelled largely off a turn of the century Spanish village. He was blatantly fantasy counterpart Hispanic.

And he is voiced by Antonio Banderas. If I worked in the casting department I wouldn't hire someone with a Spanish accent if I didn't want the character to have that connotation.

I don't like limiting it to fantasy, because it could be aliens or an alternate universe or something. Which is why I suggested "Hispanic (or that settings equivalent)". I don't care if he's green and has three eyes—if his name is El Rutabego, and he swings in on a rope with a blaster in one hand and a girl-analogue on the other, there's a good chance he's this trope. :)

sorry, I was responding to Shima in 143. As for the new definition, see my post 142.

edited 9th Jul '12 10:18:55 PM by Xtifr

That sounds just like Puss in Boots to me. The new definition includes it.