German Politics Thread

The SPD never really opppsed Ordoliberalism, even when the party was at its' strongest in the 70s. Probably because it is part of what we call Soziale Marktwirtschaft and rather emphasizes workers's rights to a large degree.

In defence of Schröder, he really earned a mess of a country and had to do basically what Kohl should have done in his last 4 years . Considering how much money Germany is still spending on social benefits, I'd argue they were necessary to make Germany competetive again. And his decision to oppose the illegal invasion of Iraq was heavily vindicated by history. But of course he also did a lot of questionable things like you mentioned.

.. The fact that he originated the nuclear phase out and then exited office into a job working for Russian gas interests is shady as hell.

The fact that he had a very friendly relationship to Putin and immediately after his political career started working for Gazprom even more.

Him opposing the Iraq war is the ONE really good decision he ever did...and yes, it was necessary to reform the welfare system, it was basically built to fail from the get go and adding all the people from former East Germany hastened the process, but there was no need to undermine the worker rights in doing so.

BTW, I actually don't agree with neoliberal principles when it comes to economics, I like our social economy, thank you very much. That is one of the points where I actually have a huge problem with Merkel, because she says she wants a social economy, but often follows neoliberal ideas. On the upside, she is also opposing the SPD's little immigration scheme, which is a good thing in my book...

To clarify, the SPD wants to take a stab at our immigration laws, which is, imho, something all parties should put on the top of the agenda, because the current mixing of asylum and immigration is worrisome (basically the asylum system is misused for immigration). At the same time, though, the SPD doesn't really want to touch that part of the law, it above all wants to loosen the rules so that companies have an easier time to get qualified workers from abroad. The CDU has blocked that idea basically since Schröder was in power (who started the while thing), and rightly so, because I think that just allow companies to sneak out of their responsibility and stop training people themselves. We need to train the people born here above all. Currently a lot of young Germans spend years in practicums and insecure jobs, trying to get experience, while the companies keep whining that they don't get the people they need, when they are right there, they just need to get trained up a little bit.

I agree, the asylum system should not be instrumentalized to brain-drain poor countries of their professionals,just so we can weasel out of cleaning up our own education system.

Semi-related: how do you think we should fix the decline of doctors in rural areas? Should the universities lower the numerus clausus for general medicine courses?

Well, for one, better information...I think a lot of young doctors aren't even aware that currently a lot of federal states are ready to set up a praxis for them, and how much financial aid is available.

But in general, there is a desperate need to even out the salaries for doctors. There are some which earn ridiculous high salaries while others a doing crazy hours and are barely scrapping by. I think the earnings have to be more standardized.

Also, I don't think that there should be a NC on medicine (or any other area of study), the universities should switch to an ability test and admit students based on them.

edited 22nd Nov '16 7:10:11 AM by Swanpride

I have to wonder why it's the companies' job to handle training workers? Shouldn't they ideally graduate from college or vocational school (congratulations to Germany for actually having a functional vocational school system instead of college-or-die, by the way) with the skills needed to perform entry-level jobs?

Well, for one, the university is only ONE way to get into a higher-paying job. Germany has an extensive apprentice system, it is one of the reason why our economy is so stable. Basically the young people start directly after school in a dual learning program, in which they are partly at school, partly in some company, and it was kind of expected that the company actually employs the person later on if he or she does good work. In the 90s a lot of the big companies, like the MAN aso, stopped said system to safe money AND fired a number of middle tier employees...now they complain that they don't have enough engineers. It's their own fault for saving money at the wrong place.

And even for students there are sometimes dual studies, in which companies work together with an university. But those options are few and far between.

Let's just say that those companies which complain the loudest are the ones which don't bother to do their part in the system...and before someone says "why should they", well, because that's how it was always done. It was a two way street, often someone started at one company at a young age and then keep raising through the ranks. That is still the case with family-owned, smaller companies...they are also the ones who don't really complain that they are lacking qualified employees. The one who keep complaining are the big companies who want ready made employees, preferable with two university degrees, five years work experience and under 30.

edited 22nd Nov '16 12:38:58 PM by Swanpride

So in other words all the companies that don't want to do any of the hard work.

Exactly...and it is not like they have to pay for the system on their own, the state does its part.

So, in other words, American business culture (where the employer and employee are both presumed to be free agents) is bleeding into Europe like it has into Japan.

Japanese Business culture is a nightmare in the first place, but yeah, it at least tries...thankfully most of the companies in Germany ARE still family-owned and risk-averse. That was the main reason we survived the crisis so well. But especially the SPD seems to believer that they and the middle class are the people which should pay up...it's the majority in Germany and those people are pretty much tired of getting taxed to the bone. That's where the Af D originated, before it was more or less taken over by the NPD.

@Ramidel: Companies should train workers (not from the ground up, mind, but after university or whatever) because they are the ones who need trained workers and best know what they want those workers trained in. Even the best academic training can't replace experience on the job.

I think we should be worried about the next possible French president, François Fillon: His campaign brochure features a map of Europe that depicts a divided Germany. Note that this is not simply the map of a wrong date, because the rest is accurate (no ugoslavia, no Czechoslovakia), He is supposedly quite open towards a potential reapproachment towards Russia. So if the brochure shows his geopolitical plans, does he seek to make an alliance with Russia to partition Germany? Are we about to witness a second Russo-French Rapprochemen? Will Germany end up encircled again?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/23/germany-amused-by-francois-fillon-brochures-cold-war-map

It's a weird map, Scotland looks independent on it to.

I thought the guy was a small government right-winger, not a delusional imperialist?

@Khudzlin: Training costs money and might mean that executives have to accept smaller corporate jets, particularly if the employee's skills then made them more valuable as employees.

It's not seen as a reliable investment when it comes to increasing the quarterly bottom line. And while German companies are not allowed to fully take an arms-length, contractarian approach to their employees, under the influence of American business practices, they're not going to take on any more responsibility to their employees than they're forced to.

Do the unions need to step in on this, and what will incentivize them to value new workers?

Thinking in spheres of influence is still very prevalent.

Lately the unions have made themselves very unpopular by proving themselves to be more interested in personal power plays than worker protection.

@Ramidel: I have absolutely no sympathy for companies (and executives) who refuse to train workers to increase their profits in the short term, then moan about not being able to find trained workers.

I fondly remember the job ad for an "entry level" job that required "10 years work and management experience" I stumbled across last year.

Another Race to the Bottom problem.

Herero and Nama groups sue Germany over Namibia genocide

Yeah, in a US Court.

Sorry, but my cynicism is big enough to expect it to be quashed because the US Government really doesn't want a court case on reparations for that sort of things where it can be used as precedent.

If the Tagesschau was correct, the plaintiffs in this case are also...minority leaders of Namibia who want more say in the current negotiations between the states.

....I'm not against such a suit per se, I'm just a bit in cynic mode this...year.

edited 6th Jan '17 2:08:54 PM by 3of4

I will be totally honest here: The fact that stuff like this always comes down to money really, really bothers me. Should Germany give back whatever it stole back then? Sure. Should it acknowledge what was done? No question. But the whole matter of past sins have become more and more about extorting money from a richer country than anything else. (And let's not forget here that Germany has been giving this particular country financial aid for quite some time already). Then there is also the question of how far back we go with stuff like this. This was more than 100 years ago. Nobody involved in those crimes is still alive. I mean, what comes next? Should Germany and Russia team up and sue France for what Napoleon did? Should the UK sue Scandinavia for the Great Heathen Invasion?