German Politics Thread

I don't think there is a way for them to secede legally. The only thing that comes to mind is the part about changing the national borders which requires a federal referendum.

Also, in general its more of a Dresden+rural issue. As far as I remember PEGIDA fizzled pretty epically when they tried it in Leipzig (which is also in Saxony). The chance of them actually getting anywhere close to that level of power even on the state level is...unlikely. In fact, I still suspect they only get their numbers up in Dresden because all the stupid aggregates there in one place.

So them threatening to secede is basically as likely as that guy who once proclaimed a new state because he considered the Federal Republic as nonexistant.

(And again: I don't want the Bavarians out. I'm just tired of semi-special status for their majority party)

edited 3rd Nov '15 1:35:47 PM by 3of4

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Helmut Schmidt, former West German chancellor, dies aged 96.

R.I.P.

If any German politican deserves the trope "Boring but practical" it would be him.

He had an life with many up and downs, when he was born Germany had just surrendered and Germans were starving, the young republic was in turmoil and nobody knew how things would develop. Although Germany faces another crisis today, nobody would doubt that the country and its people enjoy a time of prosperity few would have imagined back then. And considering that he enjoys some responsibility for this, I'd say he should be quiet satisfied.

His time as chancellor lacked this one defining moment that his predecessor Brandt and succesor Kohl had, but he managed to steer the Republic through a very difficult phase and he remained a political conscience for the Germans after he stepped down. I can't say that I agree with many of his opinions (e.g. regarding Russia), but whe I look who was ruling other European countries during his time, I'd say we were rather fortunate to have had him.

edited 10th Nov '15 8:06:42 AM by Zarastro

Hitler's Mein Kampf to be sold as annotated edition in Germany from January

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

I love how unappealing they've intentionally tried to make it. High cost, heavy annotation etc.

Brilliant.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

One of the guys I worked with at the German Resistance Memorial Center described it as the "dullest piece of NS literature that exists", so hopefully we can finally get rid of the myth of the "forbidden book".

edited 2nd Dec '15 3:28:15 AM by DrunkenNordmann

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

Ah yes, my German history professor read it and said it was an incredibly boring book.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

German woman on trial for neo-Nazi murders breaks silence over attacks

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

Schwanitz once wrote that "My Kampf" is the only book in history which changed the world because nobody read it.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

German Chancellor Angela Merkel's office given all-clear following suspicious delivery

Keep Rolling On

German top court hears plea to ban far-right NPD

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

Best thing about this: When a party's banned you can't just found a replacement party for it. So the former NPD members would have to join either one of the several other splinter parties or join the Af D, causing it to go even further to the right - right over the edge, that is.

Edit: Also, why can't I pothole single-word tropes? :/

edited 1st Mar '16 8:16:02 AM by DrunkenNordmann

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

One of the fears is that they push other parties even further right, while going underground increasingly radicalised. When the newly radicalised parties fall you'll be having a very nasty and pervasive right wing underground movement. Hope this doesn't turn into another Gladio-like debacle.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

Which the Af D already has. Every right wing party which reaches a certain level of popularity is prone to this.

Eh, my worry is that the Af D still has a veneer of salon-acceptability others don't have. Even if the entire NPD signs on with them, it will take a while for that to vanish, which could be problematic.

That being said, I think that the Af D should be banned as well because if a party member suggesting shooting refugee's to keep them from crossing the border and is not immediately kicked out hard it has no place in german politics from a ethic point of view.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:50:45 AM by 3of4

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@Drunken: Wasn't the NPD's predecessor just that (essentially a reformation of a banned party)?

EDIT: Nevermind, I got them mixed up with the Communists (which had...a bunch of heirs instead of a single continuation party).

edited 2nd Mar '16 4:28:27 AM by Ramidel

I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.

The NPD was formed by a bunch of former members of the Deutsche Reichspartei who wasn't banned, if I remember correctly, but became irrelevant at some point. Among this members was a guy named Adolf von Thadden who took over NPD leadership at some point and was blamed by some "moderate nationalists" for dooming this party, too.

We had a bunch of right-wing parties that were banned post-WW 2. Some of them tried to reform under other names and get banned again. The NPD, curiously, isn't one of these.

So hopefully, if the ban goes through this time, these idiots will have no other way available but to join the Af D and finally drag it over the edge of non-electability.

edited 2nd Mar '16 8:10:09 AM by DrunkenNordmann

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

Alright, so umm a topic in the Japanese thread reminded me of how unapologetic we were about all the stuff in WWII, and I am kind of curious now as to how the denazification of germany happened, and why nothing similar was one back home....

Sorry.

I saw that post, so I thought I'd drop in to lend some assistance.

While I'm no expert on German political history, if you're looking to examine the Occupation of Japan, you might want to start with the guy in charge, Douglas Mac Arthur. It's worth noting that he exempted the Emperor and the imperial family from being implicated in war crimes, and also claimed that the Emperor's abdication would not be necessary. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to say, but that might be a good place to start.

Oh God! Natural light!

Well, firstly the Nazi ideology and fascism were actively discredited. Just look at Godwin's law. And socially it got off ground in West Germany when the new generation questioned their parents. As far as I understand, questioning your elders or admitting guild instead of "losing face" aren't particularily Japanese things to do.

East Germany did just flat out position itself as a new entity built on "anti-fascism". Distancing itself from Nazi Germany without a thorough denazification. That's usually cited as one of the reasons why neo-nazis are more common there.

I'll start with some pictures:
German borders before Germany started the war◊ "Borders" near the end of the war◊

Germany didn't just surrender, Germany pretty much lost completely. Without surrendering it probably would have taken a few months at most for every square metre to be conquered. Basically everyone knew they were completely defeated. The general population was afraid what would happen to them, the Morgenthau-plan was known in Germany and used by Nazis for Propoganda (It didn't have any real relevance in the post war years). I think this is the basis for the things that followed

Denazification happened as well, but in the following ~15-20 years Germany actually largely ignored the crimes. As far as I recall, it was rather the 60's that defined the relationship of Germany with its past "Unter den Talaren - Muff von 1000 Jahren"[1]◊. This was a slogan often cited in the context of student protests in the 60's, basically meaning "Beneath the clothes, there's still the smell of Nazis" (not a very precise translation, but I think good enough). I think these protests are defining modern Germany's attitude to the past.

East Germany was more thorough in the post war years than West Germany. It wasn't uncommon for NSDAP members to flee to the west to evade consequences.

edited 16th Apr '16 10:22:18 AM by Uchuujinsan

Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/

Was the East German program built on the usual "purging" method of the Bloc? Or was it just (severe) prosecution and education?

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

There are similarities.

The denazifaction was supervised by the soviet NKVD and the camps Nazis were sent to were under the control of Gulag. A lot of people there died, of course.

Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/

Okay this is bugging me and I'm hoping you guys can help. I've been looking at the 1933 Enabling Act and every account I can find shows that it passed with 444 in favour, 94 (SPD) votes against and with 26 SPD deputies and 81 Communist deputies fled or imprisoned.

So that's 444+94+26+81=645. But there were 647 seats in the Reichstag, so the last two seats belonged to who? Did two deputies there abstain? Had they fled or been imprisoned? Everything I read says that all attending parties but the SPD voted in favour.

Am I just reading bad numbers? Because this is bugging me.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran