Complaining: Tastes Like Diabetes

So, crowner options would be...

• Remove all examples
• Cut the page
• Do nothing (?)

I support cleaning the examples, but I wouldn't remove this page or its examples. This is a real trope, not necessarily an audience reaction. Creators often do this on purpose, and it's occasionally Lampshaded within the work. Removing all the examples would be a mistake.

edited 1st May '12 4:31:13 PM by Fnu

I think we have the lampshaded character trope versions of this already (The Cutie and Kawaiiko).

Deleted because I got ninja'd.

edited 2nd May '12 2:32:57 PM by lee4hmz

But this isn't necessarily a bad thing, so there shouldn't necessarily be complaining. There's no reason we can't salvage the page.

The first thing we need to do is rewrite the description. Right now it accuses works that do tis as "superficially attempting to be overly kid-friendly". The description is inviting editors to complain.

edited 2nd May '12 2:56:30 PM by Fnu

Right. The thing is, how do you quantify how much sweetness is too much? It seems like it'd be really difficult to write this in a way that's not something of a complaint.

Doesn't something that's measured by "too much" fall under The Same But More or something?

Not when the different amounts have different implications. Such as here.

• Cute/Sweet/Happy - nice, enjoyable
• Tastes Like Diabetes - technically the above "but more"; however has totally different reaction: turnoff, nauseating, perhaps sinister

This is definitely hard to quantify, which is why this is an Audience Reaction. And it's certainly a valid Audience Reaction, because it can be exactly what the creators were aiming for.

There's an unused Invader Zim script (The Trial) that had a character named "Little Timmy" who was obviously intended to provoke this reaction. Here is an exact quote from the script:

I propose that we rewrite the trope description to be something less accusatory, and clean the examples to remove any unnecessary negativity. We may not be able to get rid of all of it, but that's okay. Even saying something is too cute isn't necessarily a complaint, as there's nothing saying that can't be part of something's appeal. I'm sure everyone would have loved Little Timmy.

edited 2nd May '12 4:30:55 PM by Fnu

"Turnoff, nauseating" sounds like complaining.

Do you propose to rewrite to a more general description to fit that?

Also, note: Tastes Like Dirt, which was the "inverse" of this, got deleted when it went through TRS. [1]

edited 2nd May '12 3:59:25 PM by ThatHuman

I do think the description needs to be completely rewritten. There's not a single paragraph I'd like to keep.

I think the Laconic description is a good place to start.

That gets the point across but isn't necessarily complaining. To some people, sickeningly sweet can be a good thing. That's why this is YMMV

edited 2nd May '12 4:37:27 PM by Fnu

That's not a trope though.

It can be if it's something creators do intentionally.

You just said it's YMMV.

But I don't think it's a trope if it's intentional, either. No more than "the work is dark". It's not a storytelling device.

I'll try to be more clear. It's an Audience Reaction (therefore YMMV). It's worth having on this site because it's something creators sometimes aim for. It's also occasionally used in-universe, and yes as a storytelling device.

edited 2nd May '12 5:45:04 PM by Fnu

Um, pretty much all reactions are something creators might aim for. And do we really need something like this? It seems to have been used for pretty much anything somebody might find sweet.

I believe there's something salvageable here. The page just needs work.

Made a sandbox to attempt to trim the complaints from the description - especially the "disease" rant.

I approve of this sandbox version. It's a huge improvement.

Any way to make this page not be "dump everything you find sweet here"? The page had been just that pretty much ever since it started.

Anyone OK with filling in the sandbox and crownering the options in @26?

I'm not sure what we can do about that. Our main priority right now is getting rid of the complaining, and I'm confident that the proposed new description will help do that.

edited 8th May '12 4:39:03 PM by Fnu

Just because the complaining was the reason this thread was opened, doesn't mean the other issues aren't issues as well.

Swapped the sandbox in. Now, we have to:

• Remove the complaining from the examples and the caption in the image.
• Check the subpages.
• Decide the other fate of the page - crowner is here

Hooking crowner.

If this is reworked into a trope about how children's series tend to be all fluffy and cute, what will we do with examples that are either invoking the trope as it's currently known or outright parodying it?