How much Lampshading is too much?

You know I like post modern stories as much as the next one but how is too much Genre Savvy? It can be fun to play with tropes but it can become annoying to say, "I am aware of this trope or cliche and I am gonna subvert it or make it awesome." I know it is not the tropes but how much is too much?

edited 2nd Mar '12 7:56:35 AM by GAP

When it gets too annoying, which is arbitrary.

What is "Lamshading"?

Okay, not to sound condescending, but can you please clean up that post? It's so riddled with typos it hurts to read.

As for the actual question: it depends.

Entirely dependent on what you're writing.

There is no right answer. Some works can get away with a lampshade every few seconds.

edited 1st Mar '12 9:40:29 PM by burnpsy

When it starts being used to patched up blatant holes in the narrative?

"Any at all" if it's not used well.

I'd hold off on the lampshading. It can feel like you're hitting the reader over the head, or saying, "Oh, look how clever I am."

(I'm not saying people are doing this intentionally; I'm just saying it can come across as this, if not handled carefully.)

After further thought, I think today's society is so media-saturated that some degree of lampshading/genre-savvy is only realistic for works with a modern (or future) setting, when it's done by the characters. It can be done badly, yes, but it's genre-blindness that I tend to find really annoying.

@OP: If it is more frequent than once in a while and not very subtle, it's too frequent.

The best lampshading is the kind you don't notice at all because it's either subtle, funny, seemingly normal for the setting (like maybe the characters are talking Seinfeldian Conversation like) or a combination of all three.

When instead of something character A would say to character B, it blatantly sounds like something the author is saying to the reader. "Oh sorry about that plot hole lol".

When it's used instead of coming up with a real joke. Lampshading can be very funny, but there still needs to be an actual joke. For instance, at the beginning of The Great Muppet Caper when they're in the hot air balloon and Fozzie asks "What if we crash?" and Kermit says "We won't, it's only the opening credits," that's funny. But all the times where someone pulls out a script or bumps into the film crew (Robin Hood Men In Tights, Space Balls)? Not funny, because just going "lol, we're in a movie, get it?" isn't funny.

The Muppets had a plot point rely on exactly that, though, in The Muppet Movie. I thought it worked well enough.

But the point is that the Muppets make a joke out of it (ie, Kermit telling Sam that it's going to be cultural and then getting hit by a paper airplane). They don't just go "look, a camera!" and expect that to be funny on its own.

edited 2nd Mar '12 11:01:26 AM by jewelleddragon

Self-deprecating lampshades such as "that's clichéd" or any of the sort make me feel sad for the story.

edited 2nd Mar '12 1:00:25 PM by Teraus

It depends entirely on the sort of work you are attempting to write.

I think I agree with this. It's better not breaking the fourth wall in general, but having that as the only joke is kind of annoying.

Yeah, I don't like when characters break the fourth wall. I mean, it was okay on The Weekenders or kids shows like Arthur or Martha Speaks. But not like on Ed, Edd n Eddy when Eddy mentioned they were in a cartoon.

As for lampshading, too much is when it is used in the manner of "Oh, you were expecting this cliche? We know you were. That's why we acknowledged it! LOL". It gives the sense of the writers knowing they're not trying.

Some works can get away with a lot of lampshading. Order of the Stick abuses it to the point of bringing in an actual lampshade as a joke, and is hilarious. But in a lot of other works, lampshading just comes across as an attempt at a cheap and easy joke.

It's a lot more acceptable in slapstick comedy. The more a work wants to be taken as "serious" comedy, the less lampshading becomes acceptable.

For most works, more than the occasional lampshade is too much. For more slapstick works, as much as makes sense.

When it becomes a gimmick and/or becomes painfully obvious that you're just trying to hide a crappy story behind your lampshades.

So basically, Lampshade Hanging is alright as long as you don't:

• Rely on the fact that you're Lampshade Hanging as an excuse to not make a joke.
• Use it as means to excuse bad writing.
• Kill a moment that you expect audiences to take seriously or be immersed in.

Right?

I agree with those points.

Personally, I find lampshading more appropriate in lighter and more comedic works. Some of it may be appropriate in serious works as well (if, for example, you have a very introspective character who has a tendency to analyse everything), but if done wrongly it can impact the tension.

For example, I would find it hard to believe that characters facing a life-or-death battle would refer to their enemy as "a miniboss", though they might well make jokes like that when they're more at leisure.