Church of Latter Day Saints baptizes Anne Frank

Octo, you don't get to declare something isn't real because you don't like it. It's really that simple.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Whether the LDS thinks what they did was right is not the issue. That it was wrong on so many different levels is. And if I do not have the right to have and state that opinion because it would offend their religious beliefs, then to me it shows just how stupid those beliefs are.

That poor girl does not even have a grave. Leave wherever her spirit is in peace and stop grandstanding over it, okay, LDS?

It also works the other way round, though. The Mormons don't get to declare anybody being one of them by fiat.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Octo, you do get a bit into apples and pears comparisons with that.

"You can reply to this Message!"

If anyone is grandstanding on whatever's left of that kid, it ain't the LDS, I think.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

This is just a thing Mormons do. They did this to Ghandi, Bubbah, the 9/11 Hijackers, Eazy-E, Malcom X, C.S. Lewis, Elvis, Carl Sagan, George Carlin, Adolf Hitler, Steve Irwin, Josef Stalin, Bonnie and Clyde, Count Dracula, Martin Luther, Obama's mother, Kurt Cobain, John Lennon, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, JFK, King Arthur, Lee Harvy Oswald, Mr. Rogers, The Marx Brothers, and even Jesus himself! (According to various news sources.)

That list is the funniest example of Bread, Eggs, Milk, Squick and Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking I've ever read. I'm in stitches, I really am. Why didn't anyone complain about those?

Ah, let me guess...

[[quote:340:]]

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Given that I'm not sure whether you're serious or not, due to the fact that you've said stupider things earlier in the thread, I suppose now would be a good time to mention that, as someone who isn't Jewish, I still find this baptism a ridiculously offensive action to take. The reason I didn't complain about any of the other baptisms was because I didn't even know about them, and find them all just as stupid as this.

edited 1st Mar '12 4:33:35 PM by stripesthezebra

Exactly.

They may not mean harm, but at the same time the preacher trying to "save me" from my homosexuality doesn't mean any harm.

Is my life changed because someone is trying to change who I am to their side? Not directly. But it's a bad social precedent. It can interfere with what other people may think about myself or those of my demographic. And it encourages this preacher to continue with even more extreme or invasive actions because no one drew the line here.

It makes me really wary when religions can't respect another religion's boundaries. I wouldn't like a Rabbi giving Malcolm X a belated Bar Mitzvah. I wouldn't like anyone trying to give Communion to a Wiccan. It's a simple matter of courtesy and respect.

Especially since the Jewish community had already asked them to not do it again...

"Oh wait. She doesn't have a... Forget what I said, don't catch the preggo. Just wear her hat." - Question Marc

The trouble, Handle, is that you think you're being worldly and radical by pointing out the obvious, and yet I'm getting the sense you know dick about Jews.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

I don't get it. What boundaries? Why is it a matter of courtesy and respect?

How do you assess whether someone knows more than "jack" about JewsJewish People, or about anything else for that matter? Gut feeling?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Still, it's very suprizing that no one was making a deal about Hitler being baptized, but that Jews were also.

By they way, anyone think they'll baptize Davy Jones? They haven't said anything, but givin their track record, it could happen.

That'd be funny. Poor guy desperately needs a break, what with Calypso being such an utter bitch.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

I see what you mean, but this seems like kinda a false analogy to me. I mean, this would be more akin to some fundie praying in the privacy of his home for you to be "cured" from homosexuality, without you ever knowing. It's still not nice, but not only is no harm intended, there's also no harm done. The thoughts leading to such actions are disrespectful, but I don't think we should police thoughts...

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Guys, I was raised a mormon, so I think I know a bit about this subject. Basically, baptism for the dead ISN'T forcibly 'turning them mormon'; it is, in mormon doctrine, giving the person in the afterlife a CHOICE if they want to be mormon or not. Mormons believe it's a bit like telling the spirit "hey, a bunch of these Mormons performed this ritual for you, do you want to accept it?" They don't have to accept it.

Of course, that's all under the assumption spirits are real, so a lot of people see 'baptism' and think of, well, what it usually means in most Christian sects. Mormons are a bit odd, but they're really self-assured, so they probably didn't really think about what it'd look like to the public. They just went "Well, let's give her a choice, since she didn't get the choice to become mormon or not when she was alive! :D"

Self-Thumped

edited 2nd Mar '12 4:22:16 PM by setnakhte

"Roll for whores."

Redacted.

edited 2nd Mar '12 4:18:42 PM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel

setnakhte, Did you read the post directly above yours for comprehension, or are you simply interested in continuing a fight?

He said it's not about "Your religion is wrong and inferior", it's about "Hey, we're giving you a choice you didn't have when you were alive."

edited 2nd Mar '12 4:19:16 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Which implies that they think that she's being denied benefits in the afterlife because she was jewish. However, I recognize that I'm being inflammatory and will redact my post.

edited 2nd Mar '12 4:22:05 PM by setnakhte

"Roll for whores."

<rolls eyes>

This so smells of my sometime job: call-centre agent. Yes, telling people about PPI/ home insurance renewal/ latest offer on windows/ how to shine up your soul is a good thing. It isn't when you do it time and again when the neighbours request you don't, please, anymore, as it's too late, and there's nobody on the other end of the line, so it just keeps ringing.

I'm sure that in a well-ordered afterlife, you get choices anyway, and they're yours to make. You shouldn't be phoned up about them from here. However sweet the intent, it's just pester-power.

edited 3rd Mar '12 2:49:07 PM by Euodiachloris

So what??? still better than saying she along Ghandi and all non christians will go to hell.

At least they try to save their souls.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

Um... was that aimed at me? <confused> I hope not. As, as far as I'm concerned, there's no such place as hell or heaven to even enter.

If there are such things, I think we create them for ourselves. Assuming responsibility for somebody else's afterlife is a bit... brash, really. So, I find the idea of retroactive baptising to be crass. Especially as the individuals involved can't actually go up to the people performing them to tell them to knock it off in person.

Arguing that they can turn the offer down 'up there' doesn't negate the fact they can't complain about it being shoved on them in the first place. Which kind of undermines the whole 'ain't it sweet' bit, to my mind.

That's why I'd draw the distinction between that and non-denominational sainthood. At least that says 'we acknowledge this person was good and a role-model for all to follow. They weren't Christian (or even Catholic), but that doesn't mean they weren't good'.

John 14:2 for those interested:- In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Generally taken to mean that if you're good in life and believed in something higher than yourself, it doesn't matter what your faith actually was: there is room at the inn.

But, heck: feel free to damn me to the nether pits for this viewpoint. I don't mind.

edited 4th Mar '12 4:57:53 PM by Euodiachloris

When you have an eterinity of time and an infinite capacity for accumulating information, there's no such thing as "shoving an offer in your face".

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

I look forward to the day when you find out personally whether that is true. After all, another denomination or sect in 300 years may arise who feels you should shine your soul up using their method, and not yours.

But, hey: I'll be long dust and gone. With luck, reincarnated several times, so completely unknowing that this conversation ever took place. Hopefully as a cat as one of them.

Lol no.

It was a thread hop.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.