Perpetual Motion Time Crystals May Exist

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46472940/ns/technology_and_science-science/

In theory, they could be made in the lab with current technology, and built in such a way that they would radiate a minuscule amount of energy for nigh on eternity. Imagine, a watch battery that lasts until the end of the universe. With this technology, we could build machines that last technically forever, like Arthur C. Clarke's Monoliths. Not to mention, if this research does prove useful and we start to put crystals into everything...

Anyways, just found this to be an intriguing bit of science that people might enjoy reading up on.

In summary:

Noble prize winner Frank Wilczek thinks that it is possible to construct perpetual motion time crystals without violating the known laws of physics. These crystals would remain in a nearly grounded energy state in which their particles moved continuously in a circular motion forever - the idea is that because the particles always end up where they started, no energy is used and thus thermodynamics is not violated. Perfect time crystals, therefore, are not very useful things, but imperfect ones - ones whose phase is slightly off - are another story, as they would leak a small amount of energy for billions and billions of years, making them for all practical purposes an eternal battery. Wilczek speculates that they could have a variety of applications, though we cannot be sure until one is built in the lab.

edited 22nd Feb '12 5:21:07 AM by MyGodItsFullofStars

Make sure to add a summary of the link in the OP; I usually don't open threads where the OP contains a link, long quote or video that isn't summarised because those are usually threads of the "link-discuss" variety, which we don't allow.

Your OP had some discussion to get the conversation started, though, so I though I'd give it a go. Still, be sure to add that summary.

2012. the year when Physics as we knew it fell apart.

The article doesn't say that. It says that although they have internal motion, they are already in their minimum energy state. This means they should not be radiating any energy at all.

I think he's just extrapolating and taking the concept a bit further.

I think the idea is that the imperfect time crystals that radiate energy are actually imperfect and thus would eventually break down, but it would take so long it could last for centuries or millennia. A perfect time crystal would not have any energy leak out of it, obviously.

Not exactly perpetual motion, but damn close.

edited 22nd Feb '12 12:55:07 AM by GameGuruGG

Exactly, you can't do anything useful with time crystals who have perfect lattices - their particles simply return to their starting position, over and over, without giving any energy to the outside environment. Imperfect ones, with flaws in their lattice, are a different story though - the flaws would lead to particle leaks, but only miniscule ones, such that energy stored in the crystals would take an enormous amount of time to leak out of the crystal - in theory, they could store energy until the universe ends, making them for all practical purposes an eternal battery.

The issue is not that a time crystal won't normally release energy because it has a perfect lattice, but that it won't release energy because it's in a state where its energy is already at a minimum. If they were at a greater than minimum energy state and kept up their internal motion indefinitely, they would be violating the laws of physics as we know them.

Very provocative title but basically what you actually have is... not a perpetual motion time crystal. It's a device that has energy stored in it and it releases it extremely slowly.

So what exactly is the wattage and voltage of the crystal battery?

We seem to be on the very edges of a world where the laws of physics are going to end up as merely guidelines. Particularly if the results at CERN bear out, and there were really evidential traces of particles traveling faster than light. And this thing the op has brought up. Interesting if nothing else.

And how would it be useful? A really slow leak is still a really slow leak if you can't bust it open for it's gooey jouley innards.

Interesting has a useful quality all of its own. Inspiration and all that good stuff.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'Hmmm. That's funny ...'. " Isaac Asimov

edited 22nd Feb '12 10:33:41 AM by Madrugada

The authors themselves aren't claiming it's any such thing. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if you elevated the energy state of a time crystal, it would radiate off the energy at a normal rate for any sort of crystal.

If you want matter that will radiate energy very slowly for the rest of the lifetime of the universe, just use a chunk of bismuth.

Interesting if true.

That, and call me when they've gotten it to the point of commercialization and have it so that it doesn't cost a fortune to use properly, and is more efficient, both cost-wise and energy-wise, than existing forms of energy production.

I can already see it...

Reporter: Isn't this experiment insane? It goes against all laws of physics!
Scientist: I always considered laws of physics more a... guidelines, rather than facts. Now excuse, I need to finish this once so I can proof that gravity is only an illusion.

edited 22nd Feb '12 4:03:48 PM by Mandemo

I'm not an expert of any kind here, but I do need to ask - if something is only releasing a tiny amount of energy at a time, is that going to be enough energy to actually power something?

The thing about the phrase "laws of physics" in this sort of context assumes that these laws have actually been figured out in the first place, which isn't really true.

Radiating a miniscule amount of energy for longer than the lifespan of our species is completely useless. Anything that's the slightest bit reactive already does that. It's not like it's creating energy, it's just releasing it very slowly. The slower it releases it, the less useful it is.

edited 23rd Feb '12 7:46:24 PM by Clarste

Soon Getter Rays will be discovered next.

Very slowly and, if I am not misunderstanding the idea, very periodically.

I may be wrong, but I think that the applications of this would be less of the Crystal Spires and Togas variety and more of the "yay, we can now build even more precise clocks" one. And even though scientific time-measurement is already ludicrously precise, that's something that we can always use: more exact time measurements mean that we can investigate faster and faster phenomena.

I wonder if this would be enough to bring us to the level in which time distortions due to the mass and configuration of nearby objects have to been take into account, and not only the one due to the mass of Earth...

edited 23rd Feb '12 10:33:43 PM by Carciofus

Guys, I hope you understand that the physicist:

• Did not say this is perpetual motion
• This is not perpetual motion

There, my pet peeve here is addressed.

Yeah, a "time crystal" would not extend forever in the future, much as normal crystals do not extend forever in the spatial dimensions.

Still, it could theoretically extend for an huge amount of time, at least in principle...

edited 24th Feb '12 10:51:45 AM by Carciofus

But can we build a Time Cube with them?