"Sexist superhero costumes" from Cracked

Seriously.

These threads always make me feel like an asshole for liking some sexy.

Argh. Terrible topper.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:29:03 PM by Thorn14

Because it doesn't fit into existing gender roles. It's sexism in and of itself.

Edit: For further detail, in society, women are not supposed to like the sexy. They're supposed to respond to things such as wealth and power.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:31:35 PM by Karmakin

User not identified: AGAIN, the problem is not with the sexy clothes. It is with the sexy clothes on every single female character, in situations where it makes no sense, to the point where every female is the generically sexy female character with no other defining traits. And dismissing this concern is what pisses off women who point out the genuine flaws with this problem.

And saying things like "what's wrong with sexy" is a very handy way to dismiss concerns about how women are portrayed in media. As an audience, and as people, we deserve better than that.

You know what a female power fantasy would be? One where characters that portray us aren't forced in to high heels for fighting crime, into low cut outfits that are just a hair off of showing our entire crotch, and we are more than just sex objects there to look sexy while the men get to look powerful and intimidating.

I agree with Ao S that DC and Marvel are pretty much lost causes. That segment of the industry has responded to their shrinking female fandom by essentially telling them 'GTFO,' and in response women are perfectly happy to check out manga and web comics instead. But the nice thing about comics is that anyone who can draw can make one, and there are plenty of free domains out there. This is one industry where grassroots-based change is actually easy to implement, and we're seeing it all over the place. All that remains is for efficient marketing and profit mechanisms to build up around them, and that's going to take time.

What's really holding up DC and Marvel is decades of inertia and all those corresponding marketing forces, but in terms of relevance to readers, they've been in a long, slow decline and, imho, will continue to decline - as much as I love superheroes, the subgenre's development has stagnated under the big brands.

Black Widow, Ms Marvel, Spider Woman, Sue Richards, Female Green Lanterns.

Off the top of my head.

So no, I don't think its fair to say EVERY.

And you still make anyone who likes sexy still sound like a part of a massive global conspiracy to hold women back.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:40:20 PM by Thorn14

There are many female superheros who are defined deeper then just how sexy they are.

What is wrong with having sexy clothes on every female character? Why is male sexual desires demonized? This was the only question you didn't address.

It won't let me post a link.... ;_;

EDIT: Alright I put the link into my signature. Loopholes!

edited 16th Aug '12 12:54:32 PM by UserNotIncluded

Its not on every female character too.

You're reading too much into my words if you think I'm claiming conspiracies or some other dumb shit like that.

The fact is, current artists in the Big Two consistently portray women more as sex objects rather than as characters to be feared and respected.

And oh my GOD, did you see the Star Sapphire uniforms? Holy fucking shit. Even the Green Lanterns aren't immune, with one girl wearing a miniskirt and halter top. The industry is far too dominated by scantily clad females.

Frankly, I'm kind of disappointed that they changed Wonder Woman's costume back. I liked the one with the jacket: I'd have just turned the pants to the traditional blue rather than making them black. And I liked Powergirl's new costume when I saw that.

@Karka: Yeah I don't have much hope for mainstream (it's not just the big two.) Western print comics either. And I'm a person who generally thinks the solution to these things is more content, and not less, so the webcomic movement is good.

One of the big problems coming down the pipe, in that regard, is that I do find that webcomics tend to be more sex-positive, and as such may still be seen as sexist/objectifying by people who are not as sex-positive. But this is something that there's always going to be a lot of tension about.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:48:37 PM by Karmakin

Comic book fans like iconic looks.

Its what people remember.

Ok I'm gay so I may be ignorant of 'male sexual desires' but is it really that sexy to see women bend themselves into impossible poses that look like they belong in some kind of body horror pic?

People aren't saying that NO female characters should dress like that, but that it shouldn't be a norm. People can be attractive in all sorts of ways and big busts and arses are not the only form of sexy. If a character has big boobs fine, there are lots of women out there with big boobs, but not all them do and that doesn't make them any less beautiful. Likewise some women are really curvy, but many are not. The argument is that female characters should be portrayed believably and that means not all of them having breasts that would cripple a real women, wearing appropriate clothing instead of just trying to show as much skin as possible. Why does Supergirl often show so much skin whilst Superman hardly ever shows anything?

At the end of the day what does Power Girl's cleavage window really achieve? Her costume doesn't really leave much to the imagination as it is.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:51:45 PM by PiccoloNo92

Look at that poll from earlier.

Guys like T&A. Comic book male heroes aren't believable either you know. Proportion wise at least.

And looks are just iconic.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:51:40 PM by Thorn14

I also have problems with how a lot of male superheroes are portrayed but for slightly different reasons.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:54:40 PM by PiccoloNo92

Comic books aren't read for realistic portrayals of people.

Yeah, but you don't need chainmail bikini to have an iconic look. I like the idea of the "silhouette"...do you know who a character is by the silhouette? Then it's probably a good design. If not, then not so much.

Going into manga/anime, a good example I think of a good female silhouette is Harhui Suzumiya. You can tell who she is just by the shape of the hairband, and in fact that's the focal point of the character design. The jacket off the shoulders of Kurisu from Steins;Gate, etc. These things can be interesting, and yes, still sexy, but in a character-rich way, and not something that's vapid and boring.

Fuck that, she's been that way for decades.

Besides, unless that was just concept art I saw and not an actual change, they did get rid of the boob window. They gave her a giant P on the left side of her chest that goes down in a sort of triangle, in a form fitting full body outfit. I like it.

And no, it's not. As has been pointed out in the Eschergirls blog, there's a plethora if instances where they stretched out limbs and torsos to unnatural lengths and angles to achieve the looks they have. Once redrawn with proper anatomy we find that the poses just aren't that dynamic, so no effort was made to make those women look interesting while maintaining something sensible.

But I wouldn't say they're for soft core porn either.

Realistic maybe not but they should be somewhat relatable in some way.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:58:10 PM by PiccoloNo92

For super heroes its about the uniforms though for an iconic look.

Again, they are drawn to appeal to a younger male adolescent market who don't care about those things.

edited 16th Aug '12 12:56:54 PM by Thorn14

Pro-tip: The young adolescent market is an economic dead end.

Alright! I put the link I wanted into my signature. Loopholes! It's related to the topic.

Why do you think comic book movies are becoming so big now?

Also good luck convincing them there is a huge female market just chomping at the bit for realistic anatomy.

Increasingly, comic books just aren't read.

This kind of juvenile pandering is one of the main reasons why the American comic book industry is going down the shitter, just after continuity-wank and the almost-worthless superhero genre.

I doubt realistic proportions is the solution.

The problem with superhero costumes isn't that women look sexy. Most male superheroes look like athletes, while female superheroes look like bikini models (both in build and in costume). There's nothing wrong with the women being sexy, but the double standard is grating. The men get to look powerful. The woman get to be eye candy.

I wouldn't mind the costumes so much if the women actually looked like they could throw a punch. But most look too scrawny and top heavy to manage a punch, let alone fight with a supervillain.

Finding a woman who actually looks powerful is very hard. It's one of the reasons I like Dale Eaglesham's artwork. He actually makes Power Girl look like she could kick your teeth in. (While retaining the boob window costume.)

And speaking as a woman, my power fantasy would not involve me running around in a Chainmail Bikini. It would involve me punching bad guys in the face while fully clothed. (And probably with some body armor.)

EDIT: I don't know about other women, but I would love characters with realistic anatomy. Male and female.

edited 16th Aug '12 1:01:27 PM by LadyMomus

@Thorn: Depends on what type of comics you're reading, actually. Some comics are supposed to be very realistic.

As for superheroes; there's unrealistic depictions of people, and then there's depictions of people as mere sex objects. We're not objecting to the first. We're objecting to the former. LEARN THE DAMN DIFFERENCE. Superheroines need to be more than big boobs that fly.

We want chicks that look like their clothes could stay on in a fight and aren't held on by magic. We want fight poses that look like they're actually fighting instead of dancing around in weird Cirque De Soleil poses. (And breaking their spines while they're at it.) We want women that are serious about crime fighting, women that treat it like a joke, women that are strong without that being compromised by a sex fantasy. We want women that look like they're actually ready to get into a fight and not coming out of the lingerie store.

And we wouldn't have to say this if we were getting it.