Spec Ops: The Line

I hope the developers accept my "valid ending" of not buying the game and not giving them any money.

Hey, the game is trying to make a statement on the mentality of most modern military shooters were all you do is shoot bad guys and are automatically the good guy.

And?

Here it is showing that, no, just because you are the main character in the game doesn't automatically make you a hero. Plus, why do these games always make you think you are one when you are slaughtering countless people with no remorse.

As for the lack of choice, here it is also pointing out that most games, despite claiming to give you choice, doesn't really account for your actions. Yeah you chose to show mercy that ONE time, but that still doesn't mean you are truly good when you are still gunning down tons of people.

This video elaborates more.

It's still fallacious. The game is guilting you into performing actions that, for the most part, have no choice in. The games you're talking about that "pretend" to have choice give you more choice than you get here. The developers' claim that they considered "not playing" is a valid choice is meaningless unless they're giving back refunds for everyone who made that choice. Because otherwise, they're basically giving me the middle finger for spending $60 for something I'm not supposed to play.

Zeal, do you mean "guilting you into" or "guilting you for"?

Guilting you for. My bad.

The core problem is it tries to do both things at once. You can have the greek tragedy of inevitability, or you can be condemned for choosing to do horrible things. You can't have both at once, however, because one requires choice and one requires lack of choice. Either you couldn't have chosen otherwise, or you could.

There are other ways to call to question the relationship between the game and the player without simply lambasting the player for being a horrible person. Bioshock did it excellently.

I don't think it's trying to make you feel bad. I think it is trying to just get you to think a little bit.

And if you don't want to you don't have to. It's a story you can project completely on Walker or you can internalize and ponder it a bit for yourself.

I don't think there is an answer, good or bad. It's just how the story inspires you.

No, they flat out tell you in game and out that it's your fault.

The thing is, Zeal, is that The Line takes this artistic approach in that it's sort of like the classical texts of old: you can enjoy it for what it is, and even take something from it. What you take from The Line may be up to you, but it has something to argue.

Well, isn't it? Play the game first. That's what I am going to do. Then you, and me, can really discuss the issue instead of Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch. There's a trope for that.

Meanwhile, back to my Extra Credits marathon. And I am running out of satsumas. Not nice.

edited 30th Oct '12 8:37:08 PM by TamH70

Which I still find pretentious. I can stare at a rock and ponder the meaning of life.

No. Because apparently I'm not supposed to play it. So, as CPFM Fan said, I'm apparently doing the right thing.

edited 30th Oct '12 8:35:05 PM by KingZeal

He has his views. Why make them yours if you don't have to? I am not saying mines are any better, fuck that, but they are views.

EDIT: He and I are agreeing here.

edited 30th Oct '12 8:38:44 PM by KingZeal

There are really no words to respond to that without indulging in patronising remarks which would be against this site's guidelines.

And orwellian retcons rarely work here. Just a heads up.

edited 30th Oct '12 8:41:09 PM by TamH70

That's good for them. To show them how much I appreciate their aesop, I will take it to heart and not buy their anvilicious, short, 60 dollar game so I won't kill tons of people and burn civilians.

edited 30th Oct '12 8:46:13 PM by CPFMfan

Yet your avatar is from a game in which you by the end of it kill hundreds of people mainly because their icon on your HUD is red.

I need to meet your avatar's original soon. And remove his head with my Selenaire. I have been putting it off for a while. 8-)

You don't have to. You have a choice on whether or not to kill 700 people or do a Pacifist Run (which is completely doable by the way, just don't expect to be able to deal with the psychotically violent raiders). Unrelated, but still, it bugs me when people get that little detail wrong.

I mean I don't do that, cause all the people I kill Kick the Dog repeatedly and attack me first when I'm just walking around, but... well I was being sarcastic, it doesn't matter.

edited 30th Oct '12 8:50:31 PM by CPFMfan

It's one thing to play a game with a Villain Protagonist or even a character who is a horrible person that dies a very shakespearean tragic death. It's another thing to tell the player it's their fault for doing it.

It's seriously like selling someone a porn movie and ending it with a lesson about how the video they've just seen guarantees they're going to hell.

Yeah, what CPF Mfan and King Zeal said is the exact reason why I won't touch this game with 10 foot pole...

And really, if I want something similar without attacking the player, I'll rather play Iji...at least you can actually do pacifist run there...

edited 30th Oct '12 9:13:21 PM by onyhow

Agree to disagree, then. I'm on the side of feeling that Spec Ops: The Line is brilliant, but if you're not of that opinion, then so be it.

The bad: I think the game struggles with the disjunct between simulated violence and real violence, with the hypocrisy of having an anti-war motto in a war game, and the nature of blame given the limitations of a virtual system. Basically, any message it tried to direct at its audience is handled incredibly clumsily and with some degree of insincerity.

The okay: It does sometimes allow the player to experience the subjectivity of someone experiencing post-traumatic shock, though often superficially and with an eye to spectacle. Its authenticity is often disrupted by the glibness/repetitive dialogue, but it should be credited for existing in a real space at the very least. There's some element of alienation that I appreciated. There's also an attempt to inculcate sympathy for the civilians and antagonistic forces.

The great: I loved the level/homage to Kubrick. (The one with the mannequins and the strobe lights). The environments were gorgeous. The acting was passable.

edited 30th Oct '12 10:11:55 PM by Nicknacks

The "You" in the game can either be Walker or the Player. It's up to interpretation which adds to the fun of it in my mind.

When I play Splinter Cell, I don't see it as "me" running around, pulling Russians under the ice and drowning them quietly. It's Sam Fisher.

The cool thing about Spec Ops: the Line to me is it doesn't really answer anything for you. It just sets it up where you can question all you want and muddle through a million different answers. I love that in my entertainment.

Well, here are what I consider the game's most powerful scenes. Spoilers, as it is essentially the ending.

Tell me what you think of them.