Avengers Vs X-Men

Ordinarily, I'm not. But in this case, I actually won't be buying UA. I was on the fence about it in the first place - I agree with the concept, I just couldn't decide if I wanted to actually spend money on it - but I don't think I can buy this title while it does such a piss-poor job of diversity. Remender keeps doing team books, and he keeps filling them entirely with white people. He does a much better job at diversity among his villains, which I find to be a problem. The fact that the villains of UA are more diverse than the heroes despite the villains being led by a fucking Nazijust has me giving up.

I'm not demanding quotas. I'm not in favour of writers being forced to use characters they don't really want to use. But I do think writers should try to make their casts reasonably diverse, particularly with team books. And Remender's just getting on my nerves for consistently having some of the least diverse casts out there. He's a good writer, but I just can't buy anything he puts out until he makes more effort to make his casts diverse.

Edit: You also still haven't explained how the diversity of the X-books can get annoying.

edited 20th Nov '12 12:26:30 PM by Tiamatty

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

I think he was talking about the ANAD team, because, let's face it, a lot of them were Captain Ethnics.

But they weren't, really. Maybe in the first couple issues. But it really didn't take long for them to become fully developed characters. Nightcrawler was certainly more than just a German. Colossus being Russian defined him far less than his being a farmer. Storm very quickly went beyond the "African goddess" thing. Wolverine certainly wasn't a typical Canadian. Banshee was very much Irish, but he was someone else who quickly developed much greater depth. Thunderbird and Sunfire didn't really stick around long enough to develop full personalities on that title.

I disagree with the ANAD team being stereotypical or anything like that.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

Tom Brevoort posted this◊ on Formspring. It's the (or at least an) early draft of AvX. It's really bad. There's a lot less moral ambiguity, and the Avengers are juiced up on Wanda's magic to fight the Phoenix 5 (could the incredibly-misleading cover of the final issue have been a remnant of this?).

edited 20th Nov '12 8:07:18 PM by HamburgerTime

Worse than the final product?

Wow!

edited 20th Nov '12 8:07:19 PM by fakeangelbr

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>Hex-Men I chuckled.

Casual talk is a debate you have to win.

Is this for real? I mean, really? It feel so... bad. I find depressing this is how professional writers organize their stories.

And, yeah, much less moral ambiguity. Well, I guess that "evil Utopia" thing would make even more clear that the Phoenix have taken total and absolute control over the hosts, witch would allow them to keep their images more or less unaltered. But, of course, the final result is much better for managing to give some moral ambiguity for Phoenix as well.

edited 21st Nov '12 5:23:23 AM by Heatth

Also, he (or whoever wrote it) spelled "Phoenixes" wrong twice.

Although the moment between Wanda and her father does sound interesting.

While the argumets of who was right will probably continue indefinitely, as it should, does this mean we can at least stop arguing about whether or not the authoral intent was for the Phoenix Five to be the villains?

edited 21st Nov '12 8:44:16 AM by TobiasDrake

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I'd say not, because this was a completely different version that was rejected/abandoned, possibly because it made the P5 too much like villains.

edited 21st Nov '12 8:47:27 AM by HamburgerTime

To be fair. mnarvel kind of sucks at "authoral intent" anyhow. After all, we were supposed to agree with pro-reg.

That was more a case of Marvel failing to make sure all the authors involved with the project had the same intent.

...which would also make sense as the problem here, as didn't Av X change authors midway through?

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

I've heard numerous versions of who we were supposed to agree with there, the most common one I've heard being that we weren't supposed to agree with anyone; we were supposed to just watch, and hopefully enjoy, them punching each other.

That person is delusional.

Donate money to Skullgirls, get a sweet poster.

I thought this was obvious. It is hard to argue they weren't villains. Or, at last, Cyclops near the end.

It is just that the Avengers are the ones who caused them to act that way in the first place.

Which means Xavier was more noble Mutant segregatist than the Mutant Martin Luther King he is often called and his strategy was deeply flawed and self-sabotaging.

How long did that last?

Madrox was right. The X-Men should not complain about being put on a level with bad Mutants when they are willing to protect bad Mutants from non-Mutant superheroes.

Is it really far-stretched to call many X-Men silent Mutant supremacists?

edited 2nd Dec '12 8:09:06 AM by GrandPrincePaulII

Lazy and pathetic.

DO they actually call themselves 'homo superior', or was that just Ultimate X-men?

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

YMMV. I certainly never saw Cyclops as villainous in the least. His actions in 11 and 12 are implied to be almost entirely Phoenix-crazed. Kind of like when Thing was possessed by Angrir during Fear Itself. Angrir was bad yes, but you would never call Thing a villain.

I think Magneto started using the phrase, but it seems to have become the accepted scientific term for mutants in the M.U.

That seems to answer the question of them being mutant supremacists, then.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

The X-men? Ha, no.

That is not the point. The point this is not the first time Cyclops have done something like that. And last time he got Beast and Jean for support.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to make any judgment of values.*

I was just point out things that once happened and, apparently, people forgot.

But, yeah, I agree. Madrox was right.

No, it is not. Which was my point.

However, I believe calling them that to be over simplistic. Sure, they do sorta act as they are above law, sometimes, since ever. But that only because how discriminatory the state is against them. Because of prejudice, even when the mutants follow the same laws as the normals, said laws tend to be harsher on them than on everyone else. So, yeah, they do go against the system, but only because (the perceive) the system is fundamentally broken. Therefore before inserting themselves on the system, they must fix it.

That said, I side mostly with Madox on this issue. Some exceptions aside (sentinels), at last in USA, the system wasn't that broken so that total avoidance is the only solution. Fixing from the inside always seemed more logic. However, it is not like Xavier's ways were completely absurd either.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I meant Dark Phoenix!Cyclops. You know, the one trying to destroy the world. More specifically, the "Phoenix Five", as the phoenix entity, were the villains of the story, even if the hosts themselves were not.

"Them" who? We already knew Magneto was a supremacist. And the ones using the term are the whole community, including the non-mutants.

(post finished)

edited 2nd Dec '12 4:23:02 PM by Heatth

That person was the writer. and pro-reg was right anyway.

Casual talk is a debate you have to win.

edited 28th Jan '13 7:34:37 PM by HyperAlbion

Casual talk is a debate you have to win.