The Gun Thread

Random musing.

Yesterday I went to my army reserve training (second one in a month, fml). It was utterly boring and pointless for the most of the time...but I did enjoy getting to shoot M16 rifle.

We were given five rounds to shoot at a 25 meter range target for zeroing. Obviously, this being a reserve training there's no consequence for failing it anyway, so it's just all about shooting for the sake of formality.

On the other hand, I was the only one in my squad who actually loved going pew-pew and rifles, so I put effort to properly aim. Unsuprisingly, I was the only one who got 4 rounds out of 5 within the target.

God, once I finish my current work and get a couple months of break, I should totally try visiting gun ranges around my places. There gotta be at least some places that offer shotguns or assault rifles.

While the PAVN is a known user of the AK rifles, as part of the modernization efforts the PAVN is making an effort to gradually replace the AK with their domestic-made STV rifle.

The STV is essentially a Galil Ace that's has been modified to operate like an AK. This way the troops trained with AK can switch to the STV and vice-versa. STV is also unsurprisingly compatible with AK magazines.

So why a modified Galil instead of a real AK? The answer is licensing. Thanks to a licensing deal with the IWI, Vietnam is allowed to produce their Galil domestically, which means they will be more self-sufficient when it comes to firearms and less reliant on Russian imports.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Mar 12th 2024 at 8:10:12 AM

I've seen details of its progress. IMHO, it's not a bad platform to use.

Random question: What do you all think is the best pistol for beginners?

I'm considering going to a local shooting range and try out pistol for the first time. From what I know, seems like Glock 17 or 19 is the generic but "safe" pick.

EDIT: Well, what do you know. The place I'm planning to check out doesn't have Colt M1911...but does have Remington 1911 R1. I will take the next best thing.

Edited by dRoy on Mar 13th 2024 at 9:27:16 PM

Something nice and light in .22, there's plenty of them out there.

I'm biased because I'm not a big fan of the 1911 in general but I'd really not recommend it for beginners.

The recoil is harsh if you're a novice shooter and the gun itself is big and can be awkward in the hand if you're a bit on the smaller side.

What's important to learn as a beginner is safe handling and basic tenants of marksmanship and in my personal opinion if you can remove flash and noise and recoil from that equation all the better.

I'm with LeGarcon on this. A .22 is friendly enough that if you limp wrist it you just miss instead of hurting yourself.

Treat any .22 like any other bullet. Just because the recoil is soft doesn't mean it can't kill.

In the American South and Southwest, many people learned to hunt with a .22 and those rifles are still putting food on tables today.

I am the person on the thread who will insist up and down the m1911 is a better self defence gun then the plastic 9mm shit since it's a .45 and it has 100 years of track record to prove its reliability which is the most important thing for such a task.

But like here is the catch, that's explicitly for defence, for target shooting or for beginning gun training I am also 100% in the .22 camp.

Handguns are already fucking aweful to shoot, they hurt your wrists there unpleasent compared to rifles... for self defence you can ignore this, its life or death if your using it.... but for any thing else just... no.

9mm is a good, safe middle ground. It is effective for self-defense but also common and affordable for target shooting. Manageable recoil and readily available.

Honestly around here you can almost find 9mm easier than .22 depending on the day.

The local pawn shop has a big banner they put out whenever they get more .22 ammo in and then they take it down when they're sold out. Usually lasts a few days but I remember when it'd be gone the same afternoon.

I miss the buckets they used to sell at Walmart

.38 revolvers are also a good choice. Easier to shoot in many ways.

I do kinda want to ask why a range pistol, rifles are just all around more pleasant to deal with, and generaly have better performance... the only downside is there not really concealable.

Beyond that there better then a pistol in every way... I would 100% be using a rifle for a range gun, all the recoil goes into your shoulder not your wrist.

I assume dRoy is preparing himself to purchase a pistol.

I mean yes, but I am asking why a pistol specifically, trying to nudge to a more fun gun to use unless there is a specific reason for a handgun.

From the context, dRoy seems to want to go to a shooting range for fun (not to actually buy one, as firearm laws are super restrictive in his country).

First of all, thanks everyone for the answers, I should start with 9mm.

And yeah, this. As much as I absolutely LOVE guns and would love to own at least dozens of them...I also appreciate the gun control of my country.

Welp, I finally pulled the trigger (hah) and did it - I went to my very first shooting range.

Sadly enough, the place only offered pistols because apparently for anything bigger one has to go to an outdoor shooting ranges. A firm believer of playing safe, I chose Glock 17 and 30 rounds.

I don't think I will ever forget the very first fire, because Jesus fucking Christ, recoil was a lot bigger and louder than I expected from such a small caliber.

For obvious reasons, I only got to shoot assault rifles such as M4 and M16 as a part of military service...and man, taking recoil with hand instead of shoulder really do make a lot of difference.

I'm gonna be honest, it was legit scary and intimidating experience. I took a breath every time before pulling the trigger and by the time the mag was empty, I was actually sweating a bit.

Still, it was very, very fun and would definitely go again...although probably only around once or twice every month or two, because holy shit it was a lot more expensive than I thought, with 30 rounds costing me equivalent of 60 dollars.

Anyhow, once I get the hang of Glock 17, I'm planning to try my hands on bigger caliber pistols available in the range, such as Remington 1911, Glock 21, SIG Sauer P226, Beretta 92, and so on.

Welp, down the rabbit hole I go.

Interesting setup, I can't say I've seen someone use a bicycle chain before.

Also damn, 9mm is like 25 cents a bullet these days in America and that's still a little pricey, I can't imagine two dollars. That's worse than 5.7mm.

Glad you had a good time though, handgun shooting is a ton of fun but as I'm sure you know now it's a whole different beast compared to rifle shooting.

I'm guessing they rig the pistol up so staff can set it up and ensure it can't easily be taken off the range.

But yeah, recoil on pistols can be harder to deal with because all of the recoil gets absorbed by your hand and wrist, which is a big collection of small joints and sensitive nerve endings located out at the end of your arm (which also has a few more joints). Rifles have a lot more power, but are designed to put the recoil into your shoulder and torso, where you have a lot more mass and fewer moving bits for that force to get absorbed into.

Additionally, many modern rifles incorporate stuff like recoil springs and buffers to prevent all of that recoil from hitting you at once. In the M-16, there's a little flashlight-looking thing with some loose weights inside (Fun fact! It's also a flashlight, you just have to shake it long enough to charge the capacitors), which is connected to a spring, with the whole assembly fitting into a tube in the stock. I'm told one fun prank to pull on your friends is to remove the buffer from their rifle when they aren't paying attention. Makes the M-16 kick much harder than anyone expects it to.

Edited by AFP on Mar 16th 2024 at 11:45:44 AM

Yup! Apparently few years ago, the place actually had one of its guns stolen and it sent the whole city in a state of alert...

God, so jealous. And yeah, it's like 2 dollars every bullet...so if nothing else, it's teaching me to make each and every single round count.

I actually never knew this until now. Pretty interesting...!

Next time I go to the range, I'm gonna pick Glock 17 and 9mm rounds again. That time around, I will probably focus on hitting the center mess and tightening my groupings.

God, if 9mm has this much recoil, I can't even imagine how much more .22 and .45 rounds will inflict on my weak hands and wrists.

Well, the numbers can be misleading. 9mm Parabellum has a bullet about 9mm across (9.01mm, according to Wikipedia). .22 caliber is based off of a different system for measuring the size of bullets, a .22 being 22 hundredths of an inch across (well, actually 223 thousandths of an inch, this is important later on so take notes), or about 5.7mm. It's a pretty petite round, and usually when someone is shooting .22 it is .22 Long Rifle, which despite the name is a pretty short cartridge as far as rifle ammunition goes, especially if you compare it to .223 Remington, which is also 223 thousandths of an inch across, but is a good bit longer and heavier, and packed into the neck of a much larger cartridge to kick the bullet out at a much higher velocity.

The diameter of the bullet isn't the only measure of how hard it kicks. Some bullets are longer than others, or carry more propellant (a .22 Long Rifle bullet has the same diameter as a .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO rifle round, but the latter are longer bullets loaded into much bigger cartridges). Also, the same bullet won't kick the same in different guns, depending on the design. .45ACP kicks harder than 9mm, but many pistols made for it are also heavier and that can help soak up the recoil, because the recoil of the bullet has to fight the inertia of the gun itself (thanks, Sir Isaac Newton!). This is another reason why rifles are often easier to manage than you expect, because they are themselves much heavier than the smaller pistols. Some firearms designed for pistol ammunition such as submachine guns and some carbines, will combine the pistol ammo with a larger body and a shoulder stock as well.

There's a lot of physics involved. I'm just gonna say if the gun offers you a shoulder stock, use it.

.22 long rifle is a very small and weak bullet, you usually see people hunting things like squirrels or small game birds with it.

Very low recoil, barely any flash, relatively quiet. It's why it's the choice for plinking and competition both the whole world over and why I recommended it originally.

...Welp, goes to show just utterly out of depth I am about this whole field.

No worries. You don't know what you don't know until you learn.

You spent over $60 bucks just to fire this thing? You have it bad, my friend.

I won't deny that...

...And I'll do it again next week.

Edited by dRoy on Mar 19th 2024 at 7:15:50 PM