Could use a good picture: Kung Fu Wizard

I'm familiar with what's going on in the picture, but I can see where it might not be obvious that he's punching. I can see it pretty easily, but I'm familiar with the work, so I'm biased. And yeah, I can see how it could be mistaken for a Ki attack or just casting a spell dramatically.

How about this?

The first panel is far too cluttered. I can't figure out what's actually going on in it. Something with a cleaner style would be preferred.

The only way I have any clue what's going on in that top panel is that you've been telling me. Much too cluttered.

Edit never mind. I have another idea. Give me a few minutes.

edited 6th Jan '12 9:42:34 PM by Auxdarastrix

I can't speak for "certain people", but I am insisting on the standards required for any image - namely, that it be comprehensible to people who know nothing about the original work. Your proposal, to people who know nothing of the original work, does not look like a Kung-Fu Wizard.

It looks exactly like how the Kung-Fu Wizard is portrayed in actual works.

From a guy who is totally unfamiliar with the work. The character on the right is making a Kung-fu stance. However, before it was stated, I don't notice he was wearing a gi and a robe. I thought he was wearing modern clothing and a trench coat. On the guy on the left, he does look like he is blocking a punch. I take that they were fighting and the guy on the right give a lightning imbued punch to the guy on the left.

Then find an image that shows that and that makes it clear he is a Kung-Fu Wizard, instead of complaining about my suggestion.

Rather than shooting in the dark yet again, what would make it clear to you personally that he is a Kung Fu Wizard, because apparently you and I have very different concepts of the word "clear"?

Please list your parameters.

We just want something that clearly shows both Kung Fu and Wizard to someone that doesn't know the work without being overly cluttered to the point where we can't figure out what's going on. The Negima image fails all of those things.

edited 6th Jan '12 9:54:04 PM by shimaspawn

Please list exactly what you are looking for in the word "clear" because apparently you and I don't have the same definition of the word "clear".

List the things you want to see in the picture that would make it clear to you.

Obvious use of martial arts. Something that looks unambiguously like magic and not a Ki attack. Arcane symbols and flying kicks perhaps? I can't really do much other than critique images as you find them. I know the Negima one isn't clear. I can't say for sure any other image would be clear until I see it.

Re the "looks like magic and not ki": this character can use both Ki Attacks and Functional Magic, or blends them together until they're indistinguishable.

But there needs to be some indication that there's magic involved and not just a Naruto style ninja. Those aren't this trope.

edited 6th Jan '12 10:02:54 PM by shimaspawn

This makes the martial arts part clearer, and is a cleaner image, but will it satisfy you on the magic part being clearly distinguished from ki?

edited 6th Jan '12 10:06:28 PM by Auxdarastrix

That works, at least as far as the martial arts part goes (I don't know much about Ki Attacks, so I can't say anything there one way or another).

It's better than the original, but it's not good. It does look like something from Naruto in style. I've seen them do the same sort of attack.

Well, I'm all out of ideas at the moment. Can you think of a work that actually portrays the specific things you are looking for?

Dynasty Warriors I know manages but I can't find any stills that show it well. Marron from Sorcerer Hunters might also be a good one but once again, I can't find a good still. Fullmetal Alchemist might also be a good work to pull from because the circles they use are a good shorthand for magic.

edited 6th Jan '12 10:32:50 PM by shimaspawn

FYI, the Naruto work is listed as containing example on the trope page.

Also, I'm curious how the bottom picture managed to go from "shows the wizard part", "a fairly ordinary wizard" and a "stock wizard pose" when Raso first posted to now being insufficiently wizardly.

I really, really think that the IP forum has gone overboard in the Viewers Are Morons stance to the point that we are applying standards to pictures that simply don't apply to the trope, like how a trope can say that a Kung-Fu Wizard can use Ki Attacks or have combinations of ki attacks and magic attacks that are indistinguishable, but people on the forum insists that there must be a distinction, and say that the distinction must be made by using certain tropes that are not by no means universal to all depictions of magic.

I feel like I'm being told that I must produce only pink and purple polka dotted unicorns to illustrate the unicorn trope.

edited 6th Jan '12 10:47:59 PM by Auxdarastrix

For the record, I don't see how he's "insufficiently wizardly". But again, I don't know enough about Ki Attacks to be able to tell whether throwing lightning could qualify or not.

Naruto has characters that use actual magic. This is not true for the majority of them. The majority of characters in that work are not this trope.

As for how the image changed, that's because you changed the image adding and taking context from it. Without the additional panel it looks more wizard like. With it, it just looks like a standard ki attack. I don't know the work in question. I'm just telling you what I see in the image as you present it.

Those panels don't really look consecutive to me, though. It still looks like he's blasting a guy with lightning in the bottom one - the reason that's no longer a problem is that we now have a picture of him using martial arts as well.

I've seen far too many lighting ki attacks I think. It's one of the standard ways they appear. I'm just worried that if it looks too much like a standard ki attack it will cause trope decay. There's all ready some issue on the page of people throwing characters on with no magic at all to their stories.

I don't want an image that makes the issue worse.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:01:06 PM by shimaspawn