One of the most overrated films of the last decade. Our Designated Hero is a complete idiot and it's incredibly easy to be for the bad guy the whole time.
The Illusionist was a far better film (and had a likeable hero).
More Buscemi at http://forum.reelsociety.com/I don't think EITHER of them were supposed to be the hero Gray-and-Grey Morality and all that.
and I liked BOTH of the main characters!
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs SchneizelHugh Jackman's character is the main character and depicted as sort of a protagonist (as he is trying to figure out Christian Bale's secret) with Bale as the antagonist. Too bad he's a bumbling idiot and Bale always finds a way to outsmart him.
It would have been a much better film had Bale's character been the main one. He's a much smarter character and makes evil seem fun.
More Buscemi at http://forum.reelsociety.com/I actually DISLIKED Bale's character more than Hugh Jackman. (I wouldn't have been able to stand it if the MOVIE was based around him)
I wish Hugh Jacman's character could have had a few more awesome moments though. I did really like his Xanatos Gambit at the end though. Even if Bale beat it in the end, he didn't know how it was done, and it still made a massive blow to his life.
Why do you hate all the films I like?!
edited 4th Jan '12 5:45:24 PM by gingerninja666
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs SchneizelWell, there's that contrarian idea that somebody brought up...
Good movie, but definitely not my favorite Nolan film.
I remember when I went in, I was expecting something grounded in reality(I don't know why) and then you end up with stuff like duplication and that sort of thing.
No. Neither Angier nor Borden is meant to be the antagonist/protagonist. You can look at it as 'Hugh Jackman tries to find out Christian Bale's dark, possibly evil secret', but an equally valid view of the plot would be 'Hugh Jackman tries to steal Christian Bale's intellectual property, and his daughter'. In any case, I firmly believe that they were intended to be equal adversaries without one being morally superior.
It's not Nolan's best film, but it's still good, and it's interesting to see him bring his style to a setting so different to the modern time periods of his other films.
edited 5th Jan '12 9:33:13 AM by cityofmist
Scepticism and doubt lead to study and investigation, and investigation is the beginning of wisdom. - Clarence DarrowMy favourite Nolan film, bar none, and one of my favourite films of all time. It's a cliche, but it really does get better upon subsequent viewings.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.I have to agree, I don't think either character was meant to be the "hero." Or rather, the film intentionally played with your expectations with regard to such. If I had to make a judgement, I would say Jackman was a surprise Villain Protagonist while Bale was a morally grey Tragic Hero. However, you only find that out in the last scene of the movie.
Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.comThe first time I watched it, I thought Angier was supposed to be the good guy. But on my second viewing, I realized that he's not even a Designated Hero. He's a horrible person.
Michael Caine's character is my favorite, actually.
He's like fire and ice and rage. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time. Rory punched him in the face.I honestly can't see how Bale's character is in any way BETTER than Angier? The two Bordens were perfectly willing to live the same life, cheat on TWO girls at the same time, and lie to them CONSTANTLY (driving one of them to SUICIDE in the process) all to maintain their completely asinine ACT. Okay, I can understand living your craft, but the second you start involving OTHER people, and are actively fucking with the people who care about you, you lose the right to be considered a hero of any kind in my books. His blatant negligence leads to the death of Angier's wife. He also maims an innocent woman's hand for NO reason other than spite. (If he had maimed Angier's hand then I could kind of understand given that he shot off Borden's fingers) Then he broke Angier's leg (permanently affecting his ability to walk) in retaliation for his TRICK being stolen off of him. (At least Angier shot Borden in a blind rage caused by grief because his WIFE HAD JUST DIED. Not just because he was feeling sadistic)
To me, they are JUST as bad as each other, but I respect Angier a bit more because of the guts it must have taken to commit suicide every single night and because of his Final Speech (which gave me a lump in my throat)
edited 5th Jan '12 2:42:42 PM by gingerninja666
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizelimo The Prestige was what Inception should've been. An actually complex storyline with some surreal elements.
Still not my favourite Nolan film (that'd be Memento) but I thought it was a great film. Angier might've had more focus in the film but it seemed pretty clear to me that neither character (characters?) was the hero or villain.
Bear in mind that there are essentially TWO Bordens, and one is shown to be more level-headed and less dickish than the other. This is the Borden who survives the film. He NEVER cheated on Sarah, he always truly loved her. It was his brother having the fling with Olivia and hence the one responsible for Sarah's suicide and Olivia's leaving him.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.My problem is that they decided to go through with this completely this asinine ploy in the first place. I realize that was the point of the movie, that Angier and Borden's obsession with their craft eventually lead both of their lives to ruin, but it still annoys me that they let Borden have a happy ending. Couldn't they have all died?
At least it seemed like Borden was genuinely taken aback by Angier's final speech. That made me smile
edited 16th Jan '12 10:30:59 AM by gingerninja666
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs SchneizelHe didn't get a happy ending! His wife's dead and he's on the run with his kid because he's an officially dead fugitive and his kid is supposed to in the care of "Lord Cauldlow". Bittersweet at best.
edited 16th Jan '12 10:53:57 AM by pagad
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.Still a better ending than Angier got
edited 16th Jan '12 10:55:49 AM by gingerninja666
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs SchneizelThe thing is, I think Borden, or at least the Borden we're discussing (i.e. the more level-headed one, henceforth referred to as Borden A) did realise that they were on a collision course for utter self-destruction, hence why he attempted to call off their attempt to work out Angier's trick. His more reckless twin, Borden B, had to know how Angier did his thing, setting off the chain of events that led to Borden B's execution and Angier's death. Angier simply never worked out that there were two Bordens in the first place, he merely wanted to bring Borden down with him and steal his kid as "Lord Cauldlow". I think that Borden A was then entirely justified in getting his kid back and taking revenge on Angier, who let's not forget was himself a destructively-obsessed bastard. So in my view Borden A was ultimately a more sympathetic character than either his brother or Angier, so he averted becoming a Karma Houdini.
edited 16th Jan '12 11:30:55 AM by pagad
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.Hmmmm, that does make a lot of sense. It makes me a lot less pissed off at the ending at any rate (since Angier was my favourite character)
I still think the two of them crossed SOME kind of moral line when they decided to live like that in the first place though. I can understand living your art, but the second you actually try to have a meaningful relationship with a person who's not in on the secret (not to mention having a kid with said person) then you become reprehensible in my opinion.
You ARE right though, Borden(A) is probably more sympathetic
edited 16th Jan '12 11:40:28 AM by gingerninja666
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs SchneizelSubsequent viewings do make that early scene in which Borden points out to Angier how the Chinaman does his trick with the goldfish bowl, ruminating on "living the act", interesting watching.
But as I said earlier in the thread, this is a film that does get much, much better with every subsequent viewing. You get so much out of it. I thought it was a good film when I first saw it, now it's one of my all-time favourites simply because I've been richly rewarded upon watching it multiple times. I think it's Nolan's masterpiece.
edited 16th Jan '12 11:56:31 AM by pagad
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.Oh I love this movie a lot. The idea, the framing device, much of the atmosphere - those crude 19th century artifacts and all.
Call me stupid if you like, though, but I never figured out if there is something hidden in the movie itself, as the narrator suggests, or if that was just a clever way to keep me interested. If it was the letter, it definitely worked for me.
edited 15th Feb '12 7:21:36 AM by vijeno
Both of the main characters (not using spoilers)are bad, they don't really care about anything but beating the other one. That's kinda the point.
But yeah, great movie. Lots of incredible twists.
Are you watching closely?
Anyways, barring the complete violation of physics, it is a very, very interesting look at how far obsession can take people.
edited 15th Feb '12 10:16:35 PM by willyolio
In my opinion this is easily the best movie Christopher Nolan directed. His usual more annoying directing habits are almost completely absent here. The movie has a very slow, meticulous pace, the setup is fascinating, and Christian Bale & Hugh Jackman each deliver one of their best performances. I really loved the fact that the way of filming scenes, the camera angles, the atmospheres, everything is much quieter than the other movies directed by him.
The other one I really liked from him was Insomnia, and this one too had a very calm pace, because despite everything that happens in both movies, the violence and underlying horror of the situations is more muted and subtle, which is harder to say about anything else he's made (I didn't exactly like either Batman Begins, The Dark Knight or Inception, but that's another debate)...
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.Have you seen Memento?
I've seen it. I liked the idea of having a kind of mirror structure with both timelines meeting at the end, and usually I'm all for concept movies, I really am (I sat through Wavelenght three times and enjoyed it so ... yeah) but in this one I thought the way that concept worked its way with the synopsis was very heavy-handed. I did enjoy the movie though, but not to the extent of The Prestige or Insomnia. It also maybe has to do with the fact that I did not enjoy the performances as much as in these other two.
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
One of my favourite films of all time. The Prestige is AWESOME!
Has anyone else here seen it? My favourite character is Angier, he gives one of the best Final Speeches ever
edited 4th Jan '12 4:20:26 PM by gingerninja666
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel