Anime/Yu Yu Hakusho [Revived]

That Yusuke started as a punk was really to his benefit. He had a lot of room to grow.

Hx H is better at subverting expectations relative to itself. It has some things that are interesting compared to a lot of battle shounen (like more focus on the villains as characters with their own lives), but I think this is an understandable opinion.

Yeah I can't agree with that opinion in the slightest. Naruto was a decent manga before Shippuden but already had several problems and more importantly was just not THAT strong. Even with YYH's flaws I'd never put Naruto above it.

To be honest, I sort of agree with you, I wouldn't be so inflammatory as to call the battle shounen genre "trash" but I think a lot of the bigger series in it like Naruto and Bleach weren't that excellent even before they went bad according to popular opinion.

I'm also not really a fan of the Idiot Hero as inspired by Goku in most cases, I don't really find them interesting or compelling characters the vast majority of the time (Luffy doesn't particularly annoy me, but I don't like Naruto at all, he, Sasuke and Sakura are the most boring characters in the series). I think Yuusuke is one of the better MC's in shounen since he's actually funny and charismatic and has good development.

edited 12th May '17 9:42:17 AM by Draghinazzo

In regards to "can tank a punch from Toguro, but still doesn't want to get hit by a truck"... I always envisioned fights in YYH not being won by physical strength, but ki put into behind those punches. Toguro's punches aren't dangerous because of his muscle, but his overwhelming ki that he puts into his attacks.

At some point in the Dark Tournament, someone is throwing punches. And physically, they're powerful. But there's no ki behind them so they do jack squat. Yusuke's got the ki abilities of a master, but he's still got the physique of (a ripped) teenager.

Yusuke is an Idiot Hero, though. Maybe more aggressive than most, but still.

So anyway, regarding Sensui. Wouldn't he have had to meet Koenma at some point, who is also a demon? So wouldn't he have to know right from the moment he became a spirit detective that not all demons are evil?

Is he a demon? I thought he was a god.

Sure, but he's not the specific variant of Idiot Hero that was popularized by Goku.

I was talking to Nikkolas. Not really in the mood for a big argument right now.

Pretty sure Koenma is something different from demons. His pops is a god after all. Or something along those lines.

I was under the impression that Yama was just a powerful demon who seized control of the spirit world and happens to run the afterlife.

Well, the pit stop between the human world and the afterlife, anyway.

edited 12th May '17 1:00:20 PM by Arha

Man. I ain't even sure now.

...How old are Hiei and Yukina supposed to be by the way?

We know Demons can live for a long time, but it's not actually clear if they have been alive anywhere near as long as Botan or Kurama (who are supposed to be pretty old, despite seeming otherwise).

Presumably less than a century because ice maidens have kid once every hundred years and I doubt Yukina is a mom.

I was actually under the impression that Botan is pretty young. I know Kurama and Koenma are centuries old but I don't know about her.

Christ, how long does this fight go on for anyway? Sacred energy oooo scary.

edited 12th May '17 2:46:42 PM by Arha

Having to spend eternity with Itsuki. Truly a terrible fate. However, I suppose some would say he deserves it for his crimes.

Okay but seriously this attempt to make Sensui sympathetic is just laughable. It's like Toguro but worse since Toguro at least acknowledged that he was a mass murdering bastard.

I think it's to make him more understandable rather than sympathetic. Understandable=/= justifiable. It adds to his character rather than take away, not sure why you're holding it against him. Is it Griffith-tier backstory or without flaws? No, but hardly anything is. It serves to make his character more interesting and provides deeper reason for his actions,which is a plus for a villain.

Actually, would be nice to see what shonen manga you do actually hold in high regard, If just to get feel for your personal taste.

edited 13th May '17 12:50:44 AM by Vertigo_High

He got a pretty sad sendoff. I think we were supposed to sympathize, if perhaps not agree outright. Though given the ending of the manga maybe you're supposed to do that too.

Anyway, hm, shounen I like. Negima is probably my favorite shounen fighter. Shokugeki no Soma is my favorite ongoing shounen series, though it's not a fighter. It's basically presented as one though. I can talk about other shounen fighters but I'd need to add in some qualifiers, like saying that the Seven Deadly Sins would be pretty good if it could let the villains live up to their hype for once and if the author could write relationships without kind of creeping me out.

Haha I never heard any of those except Seven Deadly Sins which I've never watched.

Negima ended a few years ago. It never got above about moderate popularity. Shokugeki is a cooking manga that is very silly.

Also, yay, Koto is back.

"Juri got what she was looking for."

L-lewd.

edited 13th May '17 3:10:34 PM by Arha

Not even a Kenshin fan?

I don't know. I watched the anime when it aired as a kid but I never checked out the manga. I don't remember enough of it to really piece together the story or anything, just the basics and a few fights.

Kenshin's main problem was that it had a decent beginning, one excellent arc and then the second and last arc was kind of a mess other than an excellent flashback. On top of all that it's another series with an annoying approach to Thou Shalt Not Kill.

l'd still rank it as one of my favorites though. Never checked out Negima since it doesnt sound like my cup of tea, food wars is in my maybe pile.

edited 13th May '17 5:32:09 PM by Draghinazzo

The only shounen that has bugged me because of TSNK is Full Metal Alchemist. There is no excuse for letting a lot of those people live. They are simply too dangerous and the narrative bends over backwards to make Ed look right. Also Ed punched a hole in Father but it doesn't count as killing him because......

Furthermore, the only "pro kill" person in the heroes group is a fucking Social Darwinist. Me and the user Ambar don't agree on much but we are of one mind in our utter contempt for that character and the shows desire to make her seem noble. Fuck you General Armstrong.

With Kenshin though, he's a skilled and strong enough protagonist to justify not killing. He can incapacitate people without killing them and once they are down and out, they can be neutralized as a threat. (unlike,say, the Homunculi) Also his backstory is a good justification for why he's against killing. It's not like he is actually a Wide-Eyed Idealist, that's a facade he adopted after years of bloody war and murder.

It takes a lot to do a good idealistic here in my mind. Vash the Stampede remains the premier example of this in anime/manga, at least for me.

OMG I remember Negima now! I saw it all the time at bookstores years back. The Japanese Harry Potter as it was often called. I think if just because of the main character.

Actually I was interested in it but never checked it out and sort of forgot about it. But man blast from the past lol.

It was fun. Lame ending though. Apparently that's just a shounen fighter tradition. They must all have shit endings.

pretty sure that's in large part due to industry problems

i can't think of a single shonen fighter that didn't have problems with the ending, except maybe kenshin (hard to remember)

Shounen with good endings...hm....

Wow, you're right. I can't think of any.

Dragon Ball had a good ending. It is not a great ending, but Dragon Ball never had a great story anyway. Arc ended, flash-forward to new generation, the end. Very standard, but exactly what you would expect from Dragon Ball.

Then come Super, but that was unplanned and 20 years later. The original ending was still intended as the ending, and can be looked as such.