Puerto Rico

So you should leave the United States because thats not your land either.

Northern Ireland should be ceded to Ireland-proper if and only if a substantial majority in Northern Ireland vote for such.

The will of both the rest of Britain and Ireland-proper are irrelevant on the matter.

The other two cases are terrible analogies for Guam and Puerto Rico as it is...

Guys, this is not a topic about N. Ireland.

This, and besides, I think Jethro was listing examples of causes he's taken up, not causes that are similar to this one that he's taken up.

Indeed

@Joesolo

Look, between Unionists and IRA, I side with the IRA any day, but people don't have any inherent right to land, we all come from africa at some point.

To clarify, colonisation is horrible, but the colonisation of Ireland simply isn't going on anymore.

edited 18th Jan '12 6:51:01 PM by stripesthezebra

Guys should we maybe head on over to the British Politics thread before Best Of decides to get a thumping?

Yeah, maybe I should thump myself for participating in that derail... Not that I'm willing to admit that my post was entirely useless.

So, OTC, please.

As to how PR would lean... Well, the Governor is a Republican (some have told me he's essentially a Spanish-speaking Scott Walker, though apparently he's not afraid to hike taxes to balance the budget), as is the Speaker of the State House and the President of the State Senate. The majority party, the New Progressive Party, is riven between fiscal liberals and fiscal conservatives (the former are concurrently Democrats, the latter Republicans - it seems common to belong to more than one party, a la Canada), but are socially right of center. They have a two-thirds majority in both houses of the Legislature. The main opposition party, the Popular Democratic Party, are center-left socially and fiscally. So, in many ways, it looks similar to a Southern state in some respects (it's even a member of the Southern Governors' Association)

For all intents and purposes, with the exception of a few small detail here and there, Puerto Rico pretty much is a state. Our culture is highly Americanized, and nearly everyone speaks English with a basic or average level of fluidness, with every generation getting better at it. The only thing that's stopping Puerto Rico from officially becoming a state is our own indecisiveness regarding the whole deal, and the fact that many natives are afraid that they'll be forced to alter their culture. In my opinion, I think Puerto Rico should definitely become a state. Both the US and Puerto Rico would benefit from such an arrangement.

edited 20th Jan '12 6:44:35 PM by i-kun

Another Puerto Rican! So hey, how likely do you think it is that you guys will vote decisively for statehood this time around?

I'm not really sure, to be honest. Lately, there's been a feeling general feeling of unrest/uncertainty due to the rampant criminality and some of the decisions the government has been making, so I think that could definitely drive the people to choose statehood in hopes of the current situation getting better. However, these sames feelings of unrest and uncertainty with the current government/governing party could lead to the people choosing to side with the PPD (Popular Democratic Party), which supports the current Status Quo, during the elections on November. Still, it's not entirely in our hands, even if we choose Statehood, as both the American and Puerto Rican governments have to agree to it.

Well, if the Republicans win, they'll likely accept you guys into the Union (their platform calls for Puerto Rico statehood.) If the Dems win, they'll also likely accept statehood (their platform calls for doing whatever San Juan tells them to.) Combine that with a pro-statehood party in power in San Juan, and a Yes vote will likely lead to actual statehood.

I'm as you say necroing this thread, because the newest Puerto Rican status referendum is only about one month away (it happens on November 6th).

And for the record both Obama and Romney have promised to support Puerto Rican statehood if that option is chosen by the voters in Puerto Rico.

I think it'll finally happen, at the very least it will be incredibly close.

edited 2nd Sep '12 11:14:32 AM by DeviantBraeburn

I'll be paying attention to it. With any luck, we're gonna have a new flag for the next fourth of July.

thought previous polls have shown theirs a decent majority that support becoming a state.

edited 2nd Sep '12 8:03:46 AM by Joesolo

Some polls and commentary on those polls:

http://www.proenglish.org/news/mainstream-media/571-puerto-riconew-political-status-poll.html

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/05/08/most-puerto-ricans-agree-with-current-us-relationship/

http://juliorvarela.com/2012/02/14/latest-poll-on-political-status-confirms-that-2012-will-be-a-crazy-topsy-turvy-year-in-puerto-rico/

Doesn't seem like it's a majority so much as there's more of them than there are in the other groups. Not combined though. And even if they voted for statehood, the resolution has to pass through Congress. And I don't have much faith they'd do that very quickly at all, what with the mire they're in lately.

Yes, but both parties in principle are committed to doing what PR wants. The Dems because they want to keep the Latino vote, the GOP because of common courtesy to a Republican governor, and to screw with the Dems.

The issue of whether or not to make Puerto Rico a state has been brought up so many times, but each time the whole thing falls apart because people start worrying about the fine print in becoming a state and decide to wait until a better deal pops up - which never does. The pro-statehood parties need to clarify things more to both their supporters and outsiders and make a draft of a statehood version of the PR consitution, so that the undecided voters can finally come to a consensus and decide on what's the better deal. Otherwise, you're gonna hear a bunch of complaints about how the US government will rip off Puerto Rico in the details and all that again, which will ruin any chance of success.

Every territory that's become a state has gotten pretty much the same deal. There's not even any need to discuss being able to draw state lines; It's an island that doesn't border anything.

What about the idea of it becoming an independent nation?

I'm not sure if any significant number of people has ever been behind the notion of PR begoming an independent country. It might be a good idea, but if no one relevant feels that it's worth promoting, presumably it isn't worth anyone's time, except as a purely academic discussion. (Obviously, I've nothing against purely academic discussions, but I thought it might be prudent to point out that this seems to be the extent of this discussion.)

Well, I know there is a party that's for PR's independence, but that's about it. I think they've had trouble drumming up much support. Still, it's not like there's not a precedent for us letting countries go under the free association clause. (They run themselves, but we provide the military defense.)

That's what happened with one or two territories out in the Pacific, with some others choosing to remain as territories, and currently having trouble meeting the population requirement for statehood to come up to vote. If that even still matters anymore; that was more important when the US was actively expanding over the continent.

I think it's still relevant because other wise a handful of smart alecs of whatever party;s in control could go "settle" some tiny island and make it a new state.

It's far from as simple as that. One, the limit, provided it still exists, is sixty thousand people. Two, the US government has to have a legitimate claim on that hypothetical tiny island. Three, the process involves not just the people in that territory voting for it, it involves getting accepted in the Senate, which is never guaranteed. It's not as simple as a political party, whose influence fluctuates over time, to just send a bunch of folks somewhere. Nowhere near that.

edited 25th Sep '12 12:34:14 AM by AceofSpades

We have quite a few of those actually.

Puerto Rico's is voting on there status right now.