Indiana Solo
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They didn't take it. NO ONE LIVED THERE WHEN THEY CAME.
The first on the Islands were the French, and they handed it over to the British. The british didn't bother with it for a few years, then the spanish had it for a while. The Argentinians didnt even visit it until nearly 100 years after the British. They left, and the british held it until The Falklands war, then they took it back.
(Edited by a mod.)
edited 14th Apr '12 9:58:24 AM by BestOf
I'm baaaaaaack
Do Not Go Gentle
I'm not going over this again. Read some of the recent pages, you'll discover clear, well-made points from both sides of the Argument, culminating in the notion that ice cream is great for the lactose-tolerant, puppies are cute, rabbits eating their own poo is mildly nauseating, and the Falklands Islands aren't going to be invaded any time soon.
It's your God, they're your rules, you go to hell." - Mark Twain
Presumably the Latin peoples of South America will be on the next boat back to the Iberia then? After all, most of them are leftovers of the Spanish and Portuguese Empires and whose ancestors stole the land from naitve Americans.
And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
The Shadows Devour You.
Let me put it more frankly; do you honestly think, Baff, that Argentina has any right to force the islanders to either a) move off the island or b) come under the control of a government they do not want? Whose populace may be actively hostile to them? (I don't know Argentine attitudes towards the Falklanders themselves, maybe our resident Argentine can fill us in?)
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
Do Not Go Gentle
Indiana Solo
The Shadows Devour You.
There are probably South Americans (and others; stupid of me to single out South Americans; but it seems to be a commonly held view out there) out there who would take his argument as a serious reason why we should get out of the Falklands. So it still bears addressing.
(Post edited by a mod to remove problematic content.)
edited 14th Apr '12 9:57:56 AM by BestOf
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
Do Not Go Gentle
...Ah.
Fair point.
Baff, regardless, just take the time to look at this thread. The Falklands is, on the whole, not on high alert for an invasion from anywhere. It's politics. Argentina is trying to smokescreen some of their domestic issues, because of serious problems at home. Generally, South America doesn't really mind the Falklands, with notable exceptions.
edited 14th Apr '12 8:22:19 AM by Minister
It's your God, they're your rules, you go to hell." - Mark Twain
Indiana Solo
Alright.
No, the british have had it longer and the Argentinians THEMSELVES are colonists with no more right to the land than you or I, and for that matter stole their land from the natives, while the Falklands had no native population when first visited by the French, who gave them to the British whom have controlled them since the 19th century and will not easily give them up.
edited 14th Apr '12 8:22:01 AM by Joesolo
I'm baaaaaaack
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
No trolling accusations in threads. Holler the mods to the scene if you think someone's a troll.
If you accuse someone of trolling, you're undertaking a personal attack and switching the discussion from the topic to the person.
If you're right about your accusation, it means you've just fed the troll the attention they crave, making the problem worse.
Again, if you suspect that someone's trolling, call the mods.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Indiana Solo
Sorry, I forget forums arn't complete anarchy sometimes.
edited 14th Apr '12 10:01:41 AM by Joesolo
I'm baaaaaaack
It's not a question of legitimacy, it's not a question of rights, it's not a question of who is right and who's wrong.
It's a question of force. In real life, Might Makes Right is in full effect. Why do you think the United States can get away with being a grade A asshole?
Argentina wants the islands and as soon as Britain cannot stop them from taking it, due to being preoccupied in another major war or not having the military or what have you, they will take them. If this never happens, Argentina will never get the islands. If they do take them, Britain may take them back (again). If not, the islands will be Argentina's then.
edited 14th Apr '12 11:31:13 AM by Vehudur
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Indiana Solo
America being an asshole? Says the support of the country that refuses to accept the Falkland Islanders have any rights to what happens to them.
The Shadows Devour You.
That is only the case if a strong Argentina was willing to press their case militarily, even from a position of superiority. And from what I've seen, the Argentines do not seem to have a belligerent culture. It is very presumptious to assume that a government will go to war over an issue simply because they seem likely to win.
edited 14th Apr '12 11:39:41 AM by GameChainsaw
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
I don't recall saying that they are the biggest asshole. Hmm.
In an ideal world, the falklanders would have a right to determine what happens to them. In practice, as long as they're stuck between two major powers who both want them they do not.
It happens regularly. Countries are more likely to go to war if they "know" they can win, even if they turn out to be wrong in the end.
edited 14th Apr '12 11:41:31 AM by Vehudur
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Indiana Solo
No one said you did...
Prince of Dorne
Except, what we do doesn't matter. All we can do is watch and speculate. Not unless you're secretly the British ambassador to Argentina.
Indiana Solo
Do Not Go Gentle
YOU'VE CAUGHT ME.
It's a case of legitimacy for Argentina because it hasn't got the Military to take the Falklands, probably won't in the near future, so the ruling party is just bitching about it to the UN to get votes. Britain has a lot of very experienced servicemen who could do a lot of damage on the ground; though our Naval Air Capacity is down the toilet thanks to spending cuts. So stop acting like the Argentinians could take it tomorrow. Too expensive, not really possible.
It's your God, they're your rules, you go to hell." - Mark Twain
Prince of Dorne
The Shadows Devour You.
He never said the Argentines could take it tomorrow. This is a rather boring discussion; we're really just rehashing old points now.
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
Funny, I don't recall saying they could take them tomorrow.
Possibly in 20 years, but even that's a stretch.
We've long established that Britain has control over the islands, has had control for over a hundred years except that brief interruption of control, the people who had a stake in the original claim are long dead and the British (supposedly) found the islands deserted when they arrived to claim them. This has been argued and counter-argued a dozen times now.
This is exactly my point. The same arguments and counter-arguments have been gone through multiple times, and we need to think of something new to add to this thread.
edited 14th Apr '12 12:12:54 PM by Vehudur
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Prince of Dorne
Well then, if you don't like the discussion, what are you doing here?
Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
Baff, we've been there since 1830. All the original colonists are dead. Their childrens children are dead. Anyone who could claim to have been directly affected by the Falklands dispute during the 1800's is gone; the islands are the legitimate home of the people who live there; as such, it is their desires regarding the islands which should be respected.
How you can claim we're "colonising" the islands is beyond me.
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.