Bah Humbug! Or have yourself an atheist holiday season

Generally not in cases where said superficial meaning turns people against the artist instead of the target of their satire.

http://xkcd.com/169/ and all.

edited 17th Dec '11 7:28:40 PM by Pykrete

I cant argue against that. Also, please dont stab me.

I also dont get why language is the 3rd word...

edited 17th Dec '11 7:33:44 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

The problem is, the types who would take offense to this are generally looking for a reason to act victimized anyhow. You could give the most eloquent, polite, kindhearted artistic interperation of atheistic lines of thought in a museum, present it to these types, and they'd try to knife it or burn it.

Hell, multiple copies of Piss Christ HAVE been vandalized by people simply charging at it with a knife or screwdriver or whatnot intending to take out their emotions.

Its a nice thought to think that communicating the message politely in good faith would work, but in practice, in certain areas of the country, like the midwest, the best you'll get is a "its so horrible how bad churches drive people away from christ these days" not a "oh, well, you're entitled to your beliefs" And its more likely they just shun you or make fun of you. People have a bad tendency to take any message that doesnt sync up with their beliefs as hostile to their beliefs.

edited 17th Dec '11 7:42:50 PM by Midgetsnowman

I don't think it's exactly fair to say anyone who was offended by Piss Christ was "looking for a reason to be victimized." I mean, pissing on a widely respected spiritual figure is kind of a thing, and like I said, the most obvious meaning to draw from it was the exact opposite of what was intended.

Some people are looking for reasons to be victimized. Screw em. It's when you're also offending people who aren't that something went wrong.

People tend to respect strong statements. Maybe that's not for the best (in fact, I'd probably agree with that), but it's the reality of the world that we live in. I'll be honest, the number of people that I've seen who deplore all strong statements is very small. Extremely small. We're talking strict emotional pacifists here.

Now, a confusing statement, such as the things we're talking about here, is a different issue altogether. People take one meaning or definition and get it entirely wrong, into something that's much more offensive...but it's not about tone.

Now, what tends to happen quite a bit is that people use the tone as a cover to complain about the content. That happens a lot. But quite frankly, these arguments are by and large irrational and pointless.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

@Pykrete,

Still. Fundamentalism requires something to advocate that has a fundamental aspect. "Extremist" is what they are.

I am now known as Flyboy.

@Pykrete: the problem is its very hard to say anything strong without offending someone. But you get ignored if you say it meekly.

Yes, but you can at least make an effort to bother being clear enough that when people get offended it's at your actual message.

edited 17th Dec '11 9:08:10 PM by Pykrete

Thank God for Stealth Parody.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

I Guess. I've just lived in a conservative part of the midwest long enough to expect any discussion of religion with strangers to turn openly hostile on the grounds I dont explicitly believe in the christian mythos.

That sucks. When ever I have discussions about it with people, the only times it's turned south is when an atheist friend of mine starts getting into "Hur der, God isn't real". That's only happened about twice, he usually recognizes boundaries.

I'm baaaaaaack

But then how can he argue his position if he beliefs god is not real.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

yeah, see. in my neck of the woods its pretty much ubiqioitous having god slammed in my face constantly and if the christian side is to be believed, I should live and let live by politely being silent while they slam jesus related posts in my face on facebook and in stores all day without complaints But if I so much as profess a warm non-religious greeting,. suddenly I'm attacking christianity.his tends to be why those of us outside the religion in rural parts of the country are so "militant" because you can only stand so much double standard before you realize they arent going to listen to you anyways, so why be nice about it anymore?

edited 18th Dec '11 9:50:24 AM by Midgetsnowman

Because, as I said earlier, you turn people against you who would otherwise agree with you when you attack their beliefs rather than keep it directed at the ones who are intolerant. All you're doing is just being intolerant yourself. You become what you hate.

Were it me, I wouldn't stay quiet if someone was actively pressuring me with their beliefs. Depending on the who and why, I would either ask them politely to avoid spamming my Facebook wall or whatnot, or to not badger me about it. If they asked why, I'd tell them because I don't share the same religious beliefs they do. If they got hostile about that, then if they can't be reasoned with at all, I'd defriend or block them.

Granted, I avoid Facebook like the plague, but personally I don't see the logic in allowing yourself to become intolerant and hateful of everyone who doesn't share your beliefs just because you're unwilling to confront the ones who are intolerant of yours.

Wait, what? Who was this?

How offended would you be if someone said you deserved to be run over by a truck? If they said you deserved to be raped?

It happens in some places - one neighborhood in Vegas has light contests, and while most of them are Christmas ones, there was one family that always did theirs as a big Hannukah display, and one year one family switched to doing a Kwanza one, just to be different AFAIK. Nobody made a big deal about it, nobody bitched to the news crews that that family was "ruining Christmas".

I'm guessing the whole "flaying" part?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

"Flaying Spaghetti Monster" sounds pretty awesome, actually. I'll use that name from now on.

edited 18th Dec '11 11:01:46 AM by kay4today

"I shall separate the skin from your bones with my meaty, saucy goodness! FEAR ME!"

I am now known as Flyboy.

The whole idea of complaining about being "mocked" strikes me as dull. While it's not always pleasant, I'd much rather be made fun of or be poked at or be satirized or whatever than to be called evil.

Maybe that's just me. But I can't see how the alternative is right.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

It's not just "complaining about being 'mocked.'" Parody and satire have a broad spectrum. Same with criticism done through parody and satire. My posts were about a specific breed of satire with the underlying message that "your beliefs are just as silly and stupid as this!" In other words, War On Straw.

It's the same kind of mentality fuels that fuels more direct "Holier/More Rational Than Thou" attacks. I intensely dislike both, and I hardly consider either to be "right."

edited 18th Dec '11 11:24:04 AM by TrevMUN

Not the same thing. According to Christianity, everybody, Christians included, deserves to go to Hell, but that God provided a "get out of Hell free" card in Jesus. There's also a difference between "you're an atheist, so you're going to Hell" and "you're an atheist, so I hope you go to Hell". Christians shouldn't be wishing Hell on anyone, but Christianity says that that's where atheists go, so a Christian saying that atheists go to Hell is, to them, a matter of fact, cause-and-effect thing, just like saying that if you drive north from the US, you'll get to Canada. (not Christian myself, but somebody's gotta play devil's advocate - or would it in this case be God's advocate?)

Somehow you know that the time is right.

I don't remember exactly the name of the reporter/pundit who said that, but I saw the clip. Here you go (kinda).

edited 18th Dec '11 11:47:15 AM by Katrika

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic

@Blueninja

Thanks for correcting me on that one. I wouldnt have noticed myself.

Plus, If anyone tells me I am going to hell, I will reply that instead, after I die, I will not exist but instead become part of that infinite void of darkness, nothingness, and doom that death is... because god doesnt exist.

I wonder who will be more traumatized after such exchange.

edited 18th Dec '11 1:14:25 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

Nobody.

@Blue Ninja: Do I really have to tell you how threats of Hell, and threats of physical violence are different to a supposed atheist?

I wasn't being entirely serious with my question, but I have to say, the responses are interesting.

edited 18th Dec '11 1:25:23 PM by DisasterGrind

...can we not attempt to traumatize in retaliation for a petty insult?

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

I am an atheist. My issue with statements like those has nothing to do with whether or not Hell exists, but with the hate aimed in my direction by the person saying it.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw