Is this rape?

The scenario: A female character with mystical powers is kidnapped by the antagonists, forced into a test to see if she has the ability to restore some magical MacGuffin, and anesthetized against her will before being put through some sort of mysterious surgery that you only find out later is for the express purposes of harvesting her valuable eggs and using her to artificially breed children with the same powers as her.

What would that count as?

Rape is sexual intercourse against the wishes of one (or both, I guess) parties involved, so yes.

Why does this matter?

It seems like vivisection to me.

That depends. Nothing sexual is explicitly being done to her (at least that's what I thought it meant). It sounds more along the lines of organ harvesting, if anything.

Rape is sex without consent. Since there isn't any sex in that scenario, I'm gonna have to say it isn't rape.

You are my new favorite poster.

You cannot rule out the possibility that this is symbolic rape, however.

and

Isn't the procedure sexual in nature, though?

edited 6th Dec '11 1:15:43 PM by Dragonzordasaurus

It involves sex organs but it is not actual sex. In vitro fertilization is not sex. As someone else has said, it's more like organ harvesting/theft than rape.

No. It's symbolic of rape, but so is getting facehuggered.

Not rape. Certainly a deep violation.

I guess there's the whole thing though where, unlike usual organ theft, she would have biological children without her permission, or even her knowledge. Which is very strange to think about.

Not really. I mean is surgery on, say, your ovaries inherently sexual? If some dude broke into your house, drugged you, performed some surgery and cut them out without your permission, that would be pretty fucked up, but it wouldn't be rape.

Same thing if he snuck in and gave you an abortion, or in-vitro fertilization. It's screwed up and creepy, and definitely violating — hell, the woman it happens to might feel raped — but it isn't technically rape. I don't think there even is a term, legal or otherwise, for forced pregnancy without sexual contact.

edited 6th Dec '11 2:10:45 PM by Dec

This actually happened to hundreds of women living in North Carolina between the 1950s to the 1970s. If you were dubbed defective (could be a wide range of qualifications, from downs syndrome to getting pregnant out of wedlock) the state had the right to remove your ovaries in order to prevent you from breeding, as part of their eugenics laws. Teenagers who were the victims of rape were found by courts to be "promiscuous" (because at the time the courts felt that young girls only got raped if they were "asking for it" by "wearing revealing clothing"), sent to the hospital, put into anesthesia (they were told it would help them to sleep), and woke up the next day with a scar on their belly (and no idea that their ovaries had been surgically removed and destroyed). Yeah, that happened right up to the very end of the 70s. They didn't keep the eggs, though.

So, was this state-endorsed "rape"? In the sense of "violation", absolutely. I think one doctor, upon realizing why his patient couldn't have any children after looking through her medical records, summed it up perfectly "You were butchered. They butchered you...(doctor begins to weep)".

Errm, there is no ovary destruction going on in the example I outlined.

For one thing, that would be incredibly counterproductive to the antagonist's goals. They want to strictly control her ability to breed, not disable it entirely.

I think that's more directed at my example of cutting out ovaries.

And I totally didn't know that, Stars. I mean, I knew there was some eugenics laws and stuff, but not the details.

It's one of those skeletons that America has in its closet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Board_of_North_Carolina

Women who have cancers sometimes have eggs taken and then the ovary is destroyed/whatever by treatment.

This could remove/destroy the ovaries, too, especially if the people taking the eggs wanted to make sure they had complete control over whatever children have the power.

That sounds like eugenics than actual rape. It is still a horrible thing though.

Yes, this was part of the Eugenics movement that started getting popular in the 20's and 30's, and not just, or even mostly, in the US. A lot of countries all over the world (the most prolific being, you guessed it, Nazi Germany), had similar to identical policies. Sad state of affairs.

I wouldn't call the situation described rape, but it's certainly not less bad because of that. It's some pretty twisted assault and violation.

Yes, this was part of the Eugenics movement that started getting popular in the 20's and 30's, and not just, or even mostly, in the US. A lot of countries all over the world (the most prolific being, you guessed it, Nazi Germany), had similar to identical policies. Sad state of affairs.

I wouldn't call the situation described rape, but it's certainly not less bad because of that. It's some pretty twisted assault and violation.

What shocks me is that in the USA eugenics efforts intensified following world war 2. You'd think after what the Nazis did people would have found the practice abominable.

Yeah, but it wouldn't be consistent with the thing I made the fanfic of if that happened.

Although it would help make the villain look even more like a misogynistic asshole...

edited 6th Dec '11 6:55:34 PM by Dragonzordasaurus

Is there any particular reason they want the eggs? Why couldn't they just clone her? It would certainly be much easier to get just her genes than to go to all of the trouble to get her eggs. Also, if the powers are based on genetics, only taking pre-scrambled halves (gametes) of a person is quite a gamble. What if the genes are super-recessive or something?

edited 6th Dec '11 7:01:02 PM by ohsointocats

How the hell should I know? I just ripped off what Yuu Watase wrote and extrapolated on it.

edited 6th Dec '11 7:05:42 PM by Dragonzordasaurus