"Stop Bitching, PC Gamers" -Ubisoft

Yeah! They probably stole their costumes, too! And even if they didn't, all the money that they spent making their costumes could have gone into games.

At least pirates don't need to spend all their time costuming. They already have snazzy outfits. It comes free with the ship, don't you know.

I have a message from another time...

Not always though.

Preferably, I have no beef with DR Ms (find them to be a Necessary Evil due to pirating). But, I don't like too strict or unfair ones.

edited 28th Nov '11 10:40:10 AM by Delvarian

Always looking for a good MMORPG with a great community...

Some people rebel against any DRM at all, but I think most of us are willing to accept a certain amount of it as a necessary evil - like commercials in return for tv shows. What makes Ubisoft remarkable is that they appear to have crossed a near-universal line for what level of DRM gamers are NOT willing to tolerate... and the company is apparently in total denial about this. Things like installation limits and rootkits that refuse to fully uninstall themselves just cross a line that most people aren't willing to ignore - and considering how much gamers are willing to ignore to play a good game, that really says something.

But hey, if Ubi doesn't want to play in the PC market, that's just fine. We've got plenty of other companies who will take their place and make just as good products for much lower prices.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.

Constantly online for games (or portions thereupon) that are exclusively single player are not acceptable in most gamers eyes. Especially in America where internet is cheap in everything but the price.

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.

DRM is perfectly fine with me. Companies should protect their products, and they wouldn't have to put so much on if people would quit mass-stealing and mass-ripping their games. Pirates ruin things for a lot of people. Embargos, DRM and childhood franchises alike.

Troper Page

Grats on ignoring all the actual content of the thread to stand on a soapbox, Vorpy.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.

Once again, let me reiterate this: it's only a mattter of time before the strictest of DRM schemes get cracked, which pretty much fucks up legitimate buyers while pirates would enjoy the cracked program that doesn't run like shit. You cannot stop piracy by directly fighting it, but allowing for convenience really works, which is why Steam is one of the more preferable schemes out there, alongside simple CD key checks.

edited 28th Nov '11 11:23:56 AM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

Thank you, the pleasure is all mine.

Troper Page

I can accept a disk check or CD key, but as soon as you try to force me to use your buggy, unstable and clumbersome external program I am downloading a crack.

What? I thought she stayed on topic with that post. She did not ignore all the actual content of this thread IMO. She has every right to say that. Otherwise, then most of us are all off-topic then.

Agreed. This would probably never been so severe if pirating didn't grow to be so big and relatively cheap to use. Of course, companies must maintain a good rep, and not abuse the customers.

edited 28th Nov '11 11:25:04 AM by Delvarian

Always looking for a good MMORPG with a great community...

People ARE going to pirate, no matter what what you can do. All it takes is one good pirated copy to begin to run down a lot of profits. What could have been 1000 sold games soon becomes only 400 or so, and the easier and discreetly it is to do, the more likely it will increase. About the only reason most people think of buying a game when there is a free copy of it online is because they want to support the creators or want to avoid breaking any laws.

Trying to formulate a way to protect against this kind of thing differs from game to game, and it might work sometimes, might not work sometimes, or have a strange mix of both.

Troper Page

It's already been pointed out that used games are more of a threat to profit than piracy is, and that plenty of companies are making a profit despite piracy. I'm not seeing where this 'invasive DRM is because of piracy and if we had no piracy we would have no invasive DRM" idea is coming from.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.

Yeah man, used things destroy their industry. Second hand clothing, music, book, and car lots have all ended their respective industries. It's true.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit

...I can't tell if you're trying to make my point for me or just trying to mock me.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.

Can't it be both?

I don't see used games as a threat. Plenty of second hand markets exist for things like movies, books, and music, and none of those industries are trying to vilify them like the gaming industry is.

Personally, and this is my opinion, game consumers are both growing up, and becoming better informed, and as such we have less gaming time overall, and a much lower tolerance of shit. Therefore for things that we judge not to really be worth paying for we either wait and buy it at a deep discount (used or otherwise) or we pirate it. The gaming industry is just going to have to learn to deal with it.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit

Just to ask, has anyone actually come up with rigorous *evidence* that piracy reduces revenue? Note, I mean actual evidence that the pirated copies translated into fewer legitimate copies being sold; a copy pirated is *not* lost revenue if the pirate never would have bought it anyway.

There are also related questions such as "Is there any evidence that [insert DRM scheme here] actually reduces piracy and/or increases revenue." For instance, I'm skeptical of how much most forms of DRM that only really work on "amateur" pirates effect revenue, as opposed to the DRM that actually slows down the professional pirates who sell illegal copies.

Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com

I don't really know much about the whole DRM debate. I try to stay away from it as a result.

But please, anyone who doesn't like DRM, do not do this. It only makes things worse for everyone who hasn't committed theft. I would appreciate that not happening.

I'd like to make my point if you allow me:

First of all, I'm a "pirate". One that buys SwapMagic disks for PS 2 and rom-loading carts for NDS. When I got my 360 two years ago, I lived off second-hand games until I found how to "pirate" it. And of course, of every 50 PC games I've played, at least 40 are pirated. Am I proud of it? No. Ashamed? No. Why did I do it? Money. Or, more accurately, not having to spend money.

Now, what do I think can be done to lower piracy?

1) Stop trying to combat it directly.

Anti-piracy measures (DRM, Starforce, CD-Keys before Steam) have always been defeated, sooner or later. You can't stop that (I guess crackers like the Bragging Rights Reward that comes with "WE DEFEATED DRM Nº351") So, I would suggest not putting any kind of "clever" anti-piracy systems that end up frustrating only buyers.

2) Make buying a tempting choice.

In other words, LOWER PRICES. I'm pretty sure you've heard this more than once:

Guess what: 60 dollars is a lot of money. 60 euros is even MORE MONEY (around 73$). Spending that kind of money is something you think twice before doing. Spending 15$ is something you may not think about twice. I know the bean-counter in you is saying

A side-effect of lowering prices (specially if it's announced by BIG FLASHY WORDS and stickers) is more copies sold. Which can mean MORE BENEFITS!

edited 28th Nov '11 2:49:22 PM by orimarc

What do you get if you burn tomatoes? Ash Ketchump.

Valve has proven that lowering prices gives an exponential bonus. Also This

edited 28th Nov '11 2:58:10 PM by stevebat

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.

At some point, lowering ain't going to be worth it though. Though I'd agree it's pretty likely video games can probably squeeze themselves a bit closer to an equilibrium price by lowing (but note that sometimes sales work so well only because some people have a mentality that are attracted to sales [even when they have little to no use of the goods bought], so it's possible companies may be better off staying at a higher price most of the time with occasional sales?).

Should I troll DRM shouting match, or just watch...

Hmmm

Put microwave popcorn in the microwave, troll, get popcorn when it is done, then watch while eating popcorn.

edited 28th Nov '11 3:42:36 PM by VutherA

People complaining about $60 video games? I would LOVE $60 video games. In Australia, most of them are around the $100 range. I saw Dragon Age II for $120-140 when it was first released.

Huh... so the topic of the thread keeps changing. First Ubisoft, then DRM, and NOW we're talking about game pricing? Well, in regards to PC, I guess it's kind of a recent phenomenon with companies like Activision, EA and now Bethesda seeing little incentive to revert back to he normally-standard $50 because customers can still buy even with a $10 markup. I really don't care for two reasons:

• Normally I wait it out until games are cheaper and/or on a good enough sale.
• Haven't $60 games, and perhaps even more expensive, been there forever?

edited 28th Nov '11 5:27:03 PM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

As I recall, top end SNES games tended to go for $80 in the US, back in the day. Neo Geo was much, much worse, but being fair, those were basically cut down arcade cabinets.

Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com